Author Topic: Congratulations Terrorists, You are getting what you want! (Read 20127 times)

KynloStephen66515 · « **on:** January 13, 2015, 08:59 AM »

In wake of Paris shootings, Prime Minister wants to ban encryptions that government can't read in extreme situations

What does this mean?: In short, it means that if the government can't snoop on your conversations...they won't allow it.

Terrorists have been fighting for years to stop people from having freedom to speak freely, and now they are winning because the governments are so blatantly stupid, they are giving them exactly what they want.

David Cameron could block WhatsApp and Snapchat if he wins the next election, as part of his plans for new surveillance powers announced in the wake of the shootings in Paris.

The Prime Minister said today that he would stop the use of methods of communication that cannot be read by the security services even if they have a warrant. But that could include popular chat and social apps that encrypt their data, such as WhatsApp.

Apple's iMessage and FaceTime also encrypt their data, and could fall under the ban along with other encrypted chat apps like Telegram.

The comments came as part of David Cameron's pledge to revive the “snoopers’ charter” to help security services spy on internet communications today.

He said: “In our country, do we want to allow a means of communication between people which […] we cannot read?” He made the connection between encrypted communications tools and letters and phone conversations, both of which can be read by security services in extreme situations and with a warrant from the home secretary.

But companies such as WhatsApp have remained committed to keeping their services encrypted and unable to be read by authorities, a project which has stepped up in the wake of the Edward Snowden’s revelations on NSA surveillance.

I will translate a part of that quote, which originally reads: “In our country, do we want to allow a means of communication between people which […] we cannot read?”

Translation: "We want to read anything and everything people who live in this country write...no matter what...and fuck you if you have a problem with it"

No doubt there will be massive petitions raised against this...as it is once again a simple case of "Snooping in the false name of security", except this time, the papers are actually reporting the issue and for once, actually giving people reason to understand why this is a stupid idea. Finally, BOTH sides are being published.

Quoted Text from: http://www.independe...e-plans-9973035.html

Oh, and by the way...don't think that just because this is a UK thing, that other countries won't follow suit...if the UK allows it, the USA and the rest of the world would quickly follow suit.

This post is not here to start any sort of political ranting or anything else that could be deemed Basement Worthy. For those please refer to: https://www.donation...ndex.php?topic=40009 (BASEMENT THREAD)

Renegade · « **Reply #1 on:** January 13, 2015, 09:08 AM »

I'm friggin' dying to comment/rant on this... I'll restrain myself... (Damn you Stephen!

)

It's ridiculous. For countless reasons. I'll list one...

For those of us that communicate electronically with sensitive or confidential business information, it is entirely reasonable to encrypt our communications.

I'm dying here...

tomos · « **Reply #2 on:** January 13, 2015, 09:11 AM »

You're making a habit of starting 'basement-style' threads Stephen :p

Renegade · « **Reply #3 on:** January 13, 2015, 09:37 AM »

Can't resist 1 more...

Also, it's impossible. HTTPS, TLS, etc. etc. etc. He's proposing on breaking everything as what he's proposing isn't possible. And people will just use something else, like "F*** Cameron Chat" or something.

wraith808 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 13, 2015, 09:38 AM »

You're making a habit of starting 'basement-style' threads Stephen :p
-tomos (January 13, 2015, 09:11 AM)

... and not starting them in the basement...

KynloStephen66515 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 13, 2015, 09:42 AM »

You're making a habit of starting 'basement-style' threads Stephen :p
-tomos (January 13, 2015, 09:11 AM)

You're making a habit of starting 'basement-style' threads Stephen :p
-tomos (January 13, 2015, 09:11 AM)

... and not starting them in the basement...
-wraith808 (January 13, 2015, 09:38 AM)

It's only "Basement Style" if people make it so. This was intended to highlight that this is happening (again). It wasn't here to start a political/religious/whatever-the-hell-else thread

Also..Tomos, what other posts have I made in the last sorta 6 months or so, that would be considered "Basement-Style"? o.O

KynloStephen66515 · « **Reply #6 on:** January 13, 2015, 09:45 AM »

Anybody wanting to rant/rave about this in a basement style way, I have opened a thread down there for y'all

https://www.donation...ndex.php?topic=40009

tomos · « **Reply #7 on:** January 13, 2015, 10:04 AM »

Also..Tomos, what other posts have I made in the last sorta 6 months or so, that would be considered "Basement-Style"? o.O
-Stephen66515 (January 13, 2015, 09:42 AM)

fair question - and difficult for me to answer cause I dont know which threads were moved.

I just remember a couple of times saying that the topic was bound to head south, so-to-speak. OTOH I can be over-careful at times.

It's debatable what terrorists *do* want, and I guess that's where it goes basementy, for me anyways.

KynloStephen66515 · « **Reply #8 on:** January 13, 2015, 10:09 AM »

I admit that I could have worded this thread a lot better, but in my mind, this is exactly how I saw it.

crabby3 · « **Reply #9 on:** January 13, 2015, 11:17 AM »

Oh, and by the way...don't think that just because this is a UK thing, that other countries won't follow suit...if the UK allows it, the USA and the rest of the world would quickly follow suit.
-Stephen66515 (January 13, 2015, 08:59 AM)

I believe the US has ways to snoop already. They just don't and won't admit it. Plausible deniability still works.

Deozaan · « **Reply #10 on:** January 13, 2015, 12:28 PM »

Let's follow the logical outcome:

If the government can read it --> so can the terrorists --> and so can other unfriendly governments --> and if encryption is banned, then the government can't use encryption either --> so state secrets won't be very secret.

Yep. This is definitely for "homeland security" and the children!

KynloStephen66515 · « **Reply #11 on:** January 13, 2015, 12:34 PM »

Let's follow the logical outcome:

If the government can read it --> so can the terrorists --> and so can other unfriendly governments --> and if encryption is banned, then the government can't use encryption either --> so state secrets won't be very secret.

Yep. This is definitely for "homeland security" and the children!
-Deozaan (January 13, 2015, 12:28 PM)

This is exactly why I have been dying for mouser to add "upvotes" on the forum...Because I would make 1000000 accounts on DC just to upvote that comment that many times.

crabby3 · « **Reply #12 on:** January 13, 2015, 12:47 PM »

Let's follow the logical outcome:

If the government can read it --> so can the terrorists --> and so can other unfriendly governments --> and if encryption is banned, then the government can't use encryption either --> so state secrets won't be very secret.

Yep. This is definitely for "homeland security" and the children!
-Deozaan (January 13, 2015, 12:28 PM)

This is exactly why I have been dying for mouser to add "upvotes" on the forum...Because I would make 1000000 accounts on DC just to upvote that comment that many times.
-Stephen66515 (January 13, 2015, 12:34 PM)

If upvotes is another name for kudos... they don't mean squat... anywhere.

40hz · « **Reply #13 on:** January 13, 2015, 12:53 PM »

You're making a habit of starting 'basement-style' threads Stephen :p
-tomos (January 13, 2015, 09:11 AM)

... and not starting them in the basement...
-wraith808 (January 13, 2015, 09:38 AM)

Yeah. And here I thought it was just me that seemed to be seeing it working way.

KynloStephen66515 · « **Reply #14 on:** January 13, 2015, 01:05 PM »

You're making a habit of starting 'basement-style' threads Stephen :p
-tomos (January 13, 2015, 09:11 AM)

... and not starting them in the basement...
-wraith808 (January 13, 2015, 09:38 AM)

Yeah. And here I thought it was just me that seemed to be seeing it working way.
-40hz (January 13, 2015, 12:53 PM)

?????

40hz · « **Reply #15 on:** January 13, 2015, 01:12 PM »

You're making a habit of starting 'basement-style' threads Stephen :p
-tomos (January 13, 2015, 09:11 AM)

... and not starting them in the basement...
-wraith808 (January 13, 2015, 09:38 AM)

Yeah. And here I thought it was just me that seemed to be seeing it working way.
-40hz (January 13, 2015, 12:53 PM)

?????
-Stephen66515 (January 13, 2015, 01:05 PM)

Just that there's times when some of what gets posted (mostly by Ren) feels a lot like it's basement baiting.

CWuestefeld · « **Reply #16 on:** January 13, 2015, 01:18 PM »

Author Charlie Stross posted the best retort to Cameron's idiocy.

Our glorious prime minister, failed TV company marketing director David Cameron, has proposed banning all forms of encryption that can't be broken by the security services. I'm not the only person who thinks this policy is beyond bonkers and well into criminal insanity (even his own deputy prime minister has reservations), but for the record, let me lay out why this is such a bad idea.

Worth reading the whole thing.

40hz · « **Reply #17 on:** January 13, 2015, 01:23 PM »

@CU - thx for that link. Charlie is generally worth reading, either for his fiction or non-fiction.

Renegade · « **Reply #18 on:** January 13, 2015, 06:02 PM »

Just that there's times when some of what gets posted (mostly by Ren) feels a lot like it's basement baiting.
-40hz (January 13, 2015, 01:12 PM)

Meh... You're just sore that it's illegal for you to collect rainwater, plant tomatoes, have the wrong kind of grass for your front lawn, water that front lawn, not maintain that front lawn, etc. etc.

But, I digress. This thread is very much off topic.

One point that should be brought up is that in terms of entropy, both encryption and compression look about the same. They both aim to maximise entropy, though there is a stronger emphasis on this in compression. Still... If I sent a compressed file with no extension and deleted/altered the header, you'd have a hard time knowing which it was.

Using compression schemes like PAQ8PX would also help. (Or high-compression algorithms that are very CPU inefficient.)

TaoPhoenix · « **Reply #19 on:** January 13, 2015, 08:16 PM »

Let's follow the logical outcome:

If the government can read it --> so can the terrorists --> and so can other unfriendly governments --> and if encryption is banned, then the government can't use encryption either --> so state secrets won't be very secret.

Yep. This is definitely for "homeland security" and the children!
-Deozaan (January 13, 2015, 12:28 PM)

Heh (several draft long rants deleted).

It just comes down to some kind of slippery moebius-logic that tries to do three things all at once, until the social version of dividing by zero finally dumps out on his head.

Meanwhile, whoever got short term payoffs from all this just slips away, while still sending encrypted emails.

4wd · « **Reply #20 on:** January 13, 2015, 11:17 PM »

... and if encryption is banned, then the government can't use encryption either ...
-Deozaan (January 13, 2015, 12:28 PM)

Since when did the laws of a country ever apply equally to its people and its Government ?

Renegade · « **Reply #21 on:** January 14, 2015, 04:18 AM »

... and if encryption is banned, then the government can't use encryption either ...
-Deozaan (January 13, 2015, 12:28 PM)

Since when did the laws of a country ever apply equally to its people and its Government ?
-4wd (January 13, 2015, 11:17 PM)

Pfft~! Silly, silly!

We have "The Rule of Law" that ensures equal treatment under the law for all. That guarantees that nothing can go wrong.

In fact, I read a book all about this and it explained just how things work properly for a wonderful world! Indeed, I have a useful passage handy to help illuminate the situation.

For once Benjamin consented to break his rule, and he read out to her what
was written on the wall. There was nothing there now except a single
Commandment. It ran:

ALL ANIMALS ARE EQUAL
BUT SOME ANIMALS ARE MORE EQUAL THAN OTHERS

After that it did not seem strange when next day the pigs who were
supervising the work of the farm all carried whips in their trotters.

We should support our leaders because they have a hard job. Poor David... he's only trying to make the world a better place, and there's so much ingratitude here!

So, that's the price of living in a civilised society. If you don't like it, you can move to Somalia.

@4wd - BTW, you spelled "Godvernment" wrong there.

40hz · « **Reply #22 on:** January 14, 2015, 08:44 AM »

@4wd - BTW, you spelled "Godvernment" wrong there.
-Renegade (January 14, 2015, 04:18 AM)

I liked "godverment" more.

Especially now that so many are acting like divinely ordained beings, with godlike indifference towards their charters, rather than as legally constituted and defined bodies whose function was to serve those who created them.

Such monsters we create for ourselves and loved ones! $:-\$

wraith808 · « **Reply #23 on:** January 14, 2015, 08:50 AM »

@4wd - BTW, you spelled "Godvernment" wrong there.
-Renegade (January 14, 2015, 04:18 AM)

I liked "godverment" more.

Especially now that so many are acting like divinely ordained beings, with godlike indifference towards their charters, rather than as legally constituted and defined bodies whose function was to serve those who created them.

Such monsters we create for ourselves and loved ones! $:-\$
-40hz (January 14, 2015, 08:44 AM)

Renegade was being sarcastic, methinks

40hz · « **Reply #24 on:** January 14, 2015, 09:42 AM »

@4wd - BTW, you spelled "Godvernment" wrong there.
-Renegade (January 14, 2015, 04:18 AM)

I liked "godverment" more.

Especially now that so many are acting like divinely ordained beings, with godlike indifference towards their charters, rather than as legally constituted and defined bodies whose function was to serve those who created them.

Such monsters we create for ourselves and loved ones! $:-\$
-40hz (January 14, 2015, 08:44 AM)

Renegade was being sarcastic, methinks
-wraith808 (January 14, 2015, 08:50 AM)

Really? Gee thx... I had no idea.