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What modern music (today) is considered to be both pop AND intellectual?
Edvard:
I think when music tries to be intellectual, it takes away from itself musically. Intellect and music don't really mix. Lyrics can be intellectual, but even there I'm not so sure - I guess it depends on your definition of 'intellectual'.
-tomos (June 05, 2014, 05:34 AM)
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Prezactly. BUT; I think if you're a natural thinkin' feller, your music is going to reflect that no matter if it's a smooth pop hit or banging two pans together. Witness: Daniel Johnston. He had pop musical genius in bucketloads when the mood hit him (if a bit err... roughshod), and it's easy to tell from his lyrics that he gave them a think or two before penning them down. Also, early punk-turned-something-else bands like Husker Du and Firehose had plenty of acumen to go around, and sounded downright sweet when they put it in gear.
One of the big problems I have with the "Alternative" scene especially beginning around the '90's is that the word itself was in reverse, a negative. Supposedly people wanted "Alternatives to crap" ... but what if the alternative to "overpolished stadium rock crap" is ... "semi-melodic uncrafted crap"?
-TaoPhoenix (June 05, 2014, 09:24 AM)
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Nailed it. Except you may forget that the '90s also had the major labels in a feeding frenzy for the stuff, and so along with the contract came the professional studio and (heaven forbid) a real producer that smoothed a lot of edges and made for more listenable stuff, IMHO, even as the bands themselves lost some street cred because of it. Yes, there was a lot of crap, but a lot of gems too. The trouble was the gems needed polishing.
I took the music program Audacity and chopped up "What does the Fox Say?" and re-spliced the verses minus the raucous chorus and wound up with something that is surprisingly listenable.
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I found the song "surprisingly listenable" all the way through. The point of the whole song was that it was a parody of pop music. Take the stupidest topic you can think of, dippy noises and all, and craft it into an ultimately listenable, danceable, viable POP song, because that seems to be exactly what the voices on the radio are doing. I think they nailed it.
That's pretty much how the best band I was ever in worked. We had somebody (the lead singer) who was very creative and original - but totally clueless. He was our wild-card factor. The rest of us would take his good ideas and chord progressions (he had made up his own chord shapes - which he played badly) and turn them into workable songs. We used to call it "the process" - or "assaying." It was a good symbiosis. A neat (occasionally brilliant) idea he lacked the knowledge to do something with got turned into a complete song. And we got that oddball riff or idea we might not have come up with ourselves since we knew better. It was a workable arrangement.
-40hz (June 05, 2014, 01:37 PM)
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Cool story, and reminds me A LOT of the dynamic (as told by other band members) between Syd Barrett and his compatriots in Pink Floyd.
One of my quiet little hobbies is taking a song that feels "promising" but not quite right for me, and doing about one to three easy mods to it, such as chopping out an annoying part, then fiddling with the tempo and pitch. I end up with "my song". No once else has to agree with the result, though I'm sure seven people in the world would. Because once the song is given to me, I get to share in the experience. I get the artist's vision, but then their control leaves.
-TaoPhoenix (June 05, 2014, 02:40 PM)
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Congratulations, you're a "re-mix artist". Seriously, there are some folks making careers out of the stuff. If you come up with anything that really tickles, let us hear it. :Thmbsup:
Go Chris! :Thmbsup:
-40hz (June 05, 2014, 05:40 PM)
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Dude, Chris Squire's bass sound was what sold me on Rickenbackers back in the day. Not that I could actually afford one, and I never really like their looks, but 'Roundabout' was the first song I remember actually noticing the bass sound on. Nowadays, I know enough to know it wasn't just the Rick, but... damn.
Also, I think Elvis Costello has had a corner market on 'smart pop' for a while now. I know he's not 'modern' anymore, but you gotta admit the guy has some pretty smooth tricks in his sleeves.
40hz:
Dude, Chris Squire's bass sound was what sold me on Rickenbackers back in the day.
-Edvard (June 05, 2014, 07:20 PM)
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In my case it was Greg Lake and a Gibson L9S Ripper. (Couldn't afford one of those either - but I bought one anyway in 73!) ;D
What modern music (today) is considered to be both pop AND intellectual? What modern music (today) is considered to be both pop AND intellectual?
I really like the Ric sound too. (Even if I'm not wild about the build quality or workmanship as this repair guy's vid discusses.) But funny thing...it's the only iconic bass of that era I've never had in my collection.
What modern music (today) is considered to be both pop AND intellectual?
If I ever did get a Ric, I'd hold out for a 4005 hollowbody. And since they're now going for $10k on average in playable condition, I think I can safely say I'll never own one. Especially since Guild has reissued their Starfire Bass which provides a very similar sound and vibe (plus a much better neck) for around a grand. 8)
40hz:
Three more additions for intelligent pop: Cat Stevens, Nillson, and Harry Chapin.
And add in some intelligent pop ladies: Loreena McKinnet, Kate Bush, Chrissy Hynde, and Margie Adam. (@SB -check Margie out here.)
Edvard:
Nilsson!! I've always considered him a "fifth Beatle". Incredible vocal range and brilliant songwriter. :Thmbsup:
TaoPhoenix:
One of my quiet little hobbies is taking a song that feels "promising" but not quite right for me, and doing about one to three easy mods to it, such as chopping out an annoying part, then fiddling with the tempo and pitch. I end up with "my song". No once else has to agree with the result, though I'm sure seven people in the world would. Because once the song is given to me, I get to share in the experience. I get the artist's vision, but then their control leaves.
-TaoPhoenix (June 05, 2014, 02:40 PM)
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Congratulations, you're a "re-mix artist". Seriously, there are some folks making careers out of the stuff. If you come up with anything that really tickles, let us hear it. :Thmbsup:
-Edvard (June 05, 2014, 07:20 PM)
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Heh not really, it's more like "with an audience of one you can't fail". I just smashed out versions to loop during work just to help me concentrate. Basically my tastes run towards speed and tempo down from the originals, so I can't tell what would be any runaway hit.
A better way to do that is to make a new thread of people wanting to do that to songs and we can trade notes.
I also have to say I don't have any attention to the fine crafting, so it's more like a musical version of a pencil sketch.
But per my point, parody or no, "W-D-F-S" has some three or four melodic themes in the verses and bridges, so it's a little bit like "if your parody is too perfect, it becomes the thing." Certainly lyrics like "The secret of the Fox, and ancient mystery..." isn't any less valid than "real song" lyrics of hundreds of staple songs we can all come up with!
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