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What modern music (today) is considered to be both pop AND intellectual?

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tomos:
Good interesting post 40, thanks :up:
Re Dylan, yeah, I was just talking about the lyrics :)
I have heard him say that in a few interviews - that the lyrics just flowed for most of those early classic tracks. Of course that doesn't make them any better, or worse, than lyrics that someone worked on for months.

Thanks for the 'intellectual' explanation - be curious what SB has to say there. I have negative associations with that word. Which is stupid. It's just a word. But it is helpful to define it a wee bit at least, in a context like this.

40hz:
I have heard him say that in a few interviews - that the lyrics just flowed for most of those early classic tracks.
-tomos (June 05, 2014, 08:42 AM)
--- End quote ---

Then too, just because they flowed out of him doesn't mean they survived as originally penned once they got worked into a song.

Most of the writing I do gets brain dumped initially. Fortunately, very few people will ever have to read any of it in that form.

Dylan always leaves me sceptical. And I'm always doubtful about most attempts to play the ingénue. Especially when I consider how much working and reworking the few poets I know do. They'll spend weeks getting a single word just right.

tomos:
^ I dont want to get bogged down by this, but he was saying this in a genuinely humble manner rather than boasting about it - almost like he didnt have much to do with it, consciously at any rate. [edit] In fact he came across as a little disillusioned that it just happened in the early days. Disclaimer: I'm not a 'fan' of his, just like some of his early music. [/edit] I know most songs are written and rewritten, but some just come like that - I've heard other musician/writers say that too e.g. Townes Van Zandt.
The Muse :)

TaoPhoenix:
Hmm, there's a couple of threads here that I think are fighting each other a bit.

One of the big problems I have with the "Alternative" scene especially beginning around the '90's is that the word itself was in reverse, a negative. Supposedly people wanted "Alternatives to crap" ... but what if the alternative to "overpolished stadium rock crap" is ... "semi-melodic uncrafted crap"?

I saw news of a study once to the effect that you can get a "listenable" pop song with relatively little craft in "innovation" as long as the individual pieces fit together. From my own little pet project, I took the music program Audacity and chopped up "What does the Fox Say?" and re-spliced the verses minus the raucous chorus and wound up with something that is surprisingly listenable.

A new problem is emerging with the intersection of Viral and modern over-mixing effects. I put Gagnam Style in that group. Trying to stay on track, the lyrics might actually be "intelligent" because they parody a part of Korean culture not everyone agrees with. ("Gangnam" refers to an upscale district considered to be snooty but has a lot of what we would call "wannabes" mixed in. So the song parodies the wannabe-posh people.)

But below that clever level, the actual song is just rather standard techno - it doesn't make sense that it's the most watched item on YouTube *of all time*. I think today's social media amplifying tools can over-promote stuff that would normally before have just been kinda "underground".

40hz:
One of the big problems I have with the "Alternative" scene especially beginning around the '90's is that the word itself was in reverse, a negative. Supposedly people wanted "Alternatives to crap" ... but what if the alternative to "overpolished stadium rock crap" is ... "semi-melodic uncrafted crap"?
-TaoPhoenix (June 05, 2014, 09:24 AM)
--- End quote ---

My feeling is there are two ways to break a "rule" in music: through a conscious decision - or - out of sheer ignorance.

The first way has a much better chance of securing a good outcome even if serendipity is never completely absent from musical invention.

Crap, on the other hand, remains crap no matter what you do with it. ;)

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