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A real debate over Mir? This is gonna be good if it ever happens!

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40hz:



From the folks over at Phoronix:

Shuttleworth Challenged Over Mir Comments
Posted by Michael Larabel on October 19, 2013

On Friday when announcing the Ubuntu 14.04 LTS codename, Mark Shuttleworth ruffled some feathers by making some critical comments about the Linux users in opposition to Canonical's Mir Display Server. KDE's Aaron Siego has now challenged Mark to a public and live debate over Mir vs. Wayland.

The comments by Mark that were covered in the earlier Phoronix article claim that attacks against Mir are only on political grounds, calls them as the "Open Source Tea Party", say they suffer from the "Not Invented Here" syndrome, and sharply criticizes systemd.

Aaron Siego of KDE, who is in support of Wayland, calls out Mark on his critical comments. Aaron has challenged Mark to a public, live, Internet debate to discuss these topics. The challenge was made via Aaron's Google+ page. There's plenty of comments on the page, including from Jono Bacon, Martin Gräßlin, and other open-source developers.

There's no word yet whether Mark will accept the debate.
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mahesh2k:
KDE is anti ubuntu and anti canonical. The KDE users are attacking ubuntu and gnome for quite some time now. I don't like the way KDE and community members are calling out these days to the ubuntu. I mean if you don't like ubuntu then don't use it, why cause mess by entering into their community, forums and trying to stir away the users calling canonical out. The way KDE members attacking gnome and ubuntu on sites like omgubuntu.co.uk is a shame.

40hz:
@Mahesh2k - FWIW, the proposed discussion has little to do with KDE/Gnome/Canonical and everything to do with Mir and Mark Shuttleworth. If you haven't followed the debate and controversy surrounding Mir vs Wayland, Aaron Siego's calling Shuttleworth out at this juncture probably won't make much sense to you.
 :)

Aaron's invitation to MarkAaron Seigo
Shared publicly  -  Oct 18, 2013
 
+Mark Shuttleworth, You write in the blog linked below:

"Mir is really important work. When lots of competitors attack a project on purely political grounds, you have to wonder what THEIR agenda is. At least we know now who belongs to the Open Source Tea Party "

As one of the people who has disagreed with the necessity of, the value proposition of as well as the practice of spreading lies in defense of Mir, I resent being equated with a political movement that bears no resemblance to the issues surrounding Mir. I am particularly offended by the implication that the only retort to Mir has been politically motivated.

It amounts to libel at worst, and name calling at best. You would not accept that done to you, yet you do it to others. Shame on you, Mark, shame.

You feel that defending Mir with such tactics is important enough to plug that into an otherwise unrelated blog entry that opens with "I would like to say a few thank-you’s".

My response to that is simple, Mark: let's do this like adults.

If you wish to discuss Mir and cast aspersions on those who disagree in the process, well then by all means let's discuss Mir, Mark.

Let's do so live and online. Let's appear on one of the outstanding Free software video casts such as the Linux Action Show with +Chris Fisher and +Matt Hartley (assuming they will have us) and discuss the merits of Mir,  Wayland and their implications vis-à-vis Free software .

Yes, I am challenging you to a public debate on the matter. Seems appropriate as you seem to feel this is a political matter.

Are you in?


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mahesh2k:
I did followed this whole debacle. The KDE userbase is attacking canonical, gnome and ubuntu for quite some time. The KDE userbase is the one who is taking this discussion into form of debate. It is not even a debate, it is basically attack of "freedom of choice". Canonical wants to use mir, and rest of the community is against it. Funny how "freedom of choice" works for the so-called liberal linux folks. The way aaron is posting replies on Google plus for this debate, shows his less professional side. I have followed the weyland, mir and xmir discussion already. There is one youtube video where the X developer is giving his genuine thoughts on mir, yet the community is making up their own stories and attacking ubuntu and canonical. I failed to understand one point that if the ubuntu wants to use mir for their own closed community, why they can't use it? Redhat uses plenty of cloud components which are closed and not given to the public unless they are customers, atleast canonical is not doing something like that.

At one point, linux community talks about choice and then when some organization makes use of open source for their own purpose (in turn their choice). Linux community attacks them for that?

Edvard:
Mr. Shuttleworth "shows his less professional side" in making ad hominem statements against those who dislike Mir.  I couldn't care less, plain ol' Xorg works just grand so far, and hopefully the superior technology wins in the end rather than egos and politics (yeah, right).  I have less than high hopes about it with bad form being shown on both sides.

40Hz, could you pass the popcorn?

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