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Am I the only person that has a real big problem with software like this?
wraith808:
I've started with perfectly innocent links, and within a half dozen clicks I've inadvertently ended up at some seriously sick, disturbed, demented perversions. (No - I don't mean pron.) There are gateways out there that young kids really shouldn't be getting into. Being able to control or limit that for kids is just being responsible. However... that can't go on forever. The reigns must be slowly loosened until you finally let go. Nobody has any business putting reigns on another adult.
-Renegade (October 07, 2013, 04:28 AM)
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This. As my children have become older, there's very little that we still do at 16. A little more at 12, but not that much.
And I guess it's no big deal to someone that has been tracked by their parents since birth to continue to be tracked by police, as adults, when they go off to college.
-app103 (October 07, 2013, 08:17 AM)
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And... you're ignoring that statement above. That a parent that does use it has the responsibility to talk to their kids about it, and why, and when it's not acceptable.
y0himba:
My children know they have absolutely no expectation of privacy when it comes to the Internet, their phones, the television Etc. I monitor them, and then counsel them. After so long being monitored, it has actually had the effect of creating trust and respect between my children and I, as well as teaching right from wrong. When I was a child, we didn't have the devices and access we do now, yet I still was monitored and had no privacy. As a child it got under my skin due to the fact our maturing brains work that way, but taught me the right lessons. As an adult I see the benefits and reasons for monitoring.
I can honestly say, after watching what they do for so long, that I monitor them now more for keeping them away from links or people that specifically prey on children. Whether it be for monetary reasons or for other, more sick reasons.
Renegade:
In my very state, Montclair State University was the first college in the country to require students to purchase a cell phone from the school (it's included in the cost of tuition), even if they already have a cell phone. The purpose of this "school phone" is so campus police can track students via GPS.
-app103 (October 07, 2013, 08:17 AM)
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Because even if you're a 6' 2" 220 lb muscle-bound, kung-fu fighting 18-year old, it would be unfair if you didn't have to buy one while everyone else did...
God... Requiring? Including in the cost of tuition? Cripes... WTF is wrong with NOT forcing people to buy crap they don't want?
It's supposed to be for their own safety....protecting "kids", blah, blah, blah.
-app103 (October 07, 2013, 08:17 AM)
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Sigh...
But as we all know, most college "kids" aren't technically kids any more. They are adults, over the age of 18. When the program started, turning on the GPS was at the student's option, and if they didn't turn it off after 20 minutes, campus police would be dispatched to their location. It's a "safety thing".
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/tech/wireless/phones/2007-12-03-montclair-state-gps_N.htm
-app103 (October 07, 2013, 08:17 AM)
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I don't mind if other people want to do that. Great. Wonderful. Awesome. Good for them.
But forcing everyone?
Like you said - they're adults. They can make their own decisions, even if those decisions don't turn out all rainbow farting unicorns and leprechaun's playing AC/DC while they slide down the unicorn farts into their pots of gold...
They say that a frog in a pot of water doesn't notice it's being cooked to death if you heat the water slowly.
So, the first step is making the phones mandatory to own. Next would be mandatory to carry, then mandatory to have turned on.-app103 (October 07, 2013, 08:17 AM)
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The problem here is MANDATORY. And that they are adults capable of making their own decisions.
And I guess it's no big deal to someone that has been tracked by their parents since birth to continue to be tracked by police, as adults, when they go off to college.
-app103 (October 07, 2013, 08:17 AM)
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Why do you think I hate public education so much? It's nothing more than one big behaviour modification exercise. But, that aside... I did say I wouldn't rant about it...
There are a lot of people that aren't the best parents out there.
There are a lot of people that don't raise their children responsibly.
There are a lot of people that inflict serious injuries on their kids, either physically, mentally, or spiritually.
But taking a tool that can be used properly by loving, caring, and judicious parents isn't going to do any good.
It's not the tool - it's who uses it.
I wonder if any of these software vendors would put in a notice about the dangers of surveillance... Prolly not.
For individual parents, the amount of harm they can do with these kinds of tools is pretty much limited to their own household. This is a price that is paid for not having a totalitarian surveillance state.
For a state to have these kinds of tools though... That's another thread. :D
40hz:
My original question wasn't whether or not it was appropriate or necessary to *watch* and set restrictions on a child we're personally responsible for. I don't think there's anyone here who would argue against that even if there are disagreements over the form and extent such supervision entails.
My question revolves more around a ubiquitous and total (via software) NSA-like scoop and recording of all actions taken during a particular activity such as email or web browsing. Because that is exactly what this software does.
That's the difference (in my mind) between parenting and *electronic monitoring* - which is something I find completely misguided at best, and utterly reprehensible in practice.
While it may "take a village" to raise a child (and I have my doubts about that theory folk mantra as well) it certainly doesn't require software and an electronic device to do it.
You can't attempt to automate social responsibility or parenting without losing some of our humanity in the process.
Renegade:
My question revolves more around a ubiquitous and total (via software) NSA-like scoop and recording of all actions taken during a particular activity such as email or web browsing. Because that is exactly what this software does.
-40hz (October 07, 2013, 09:25 AM)
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Some kids probably need it.
I know one kid where the first time I met him I knew what he was all about... drugs, hanging out with friends, getting into the criminal side of all that... you can imagine.
His parents knew jack about it.
The kid's family had a rough go as dad got cancer and went downhill. He died. It sapped the family financially. Mom worked her butt off to try and save the house so that they'd have a place to live... i.e. Mom & dad weren't around much for him for understandable reasons.
Would some kind of monitoring have helped? Maybe. Could be the problem was there well beforehand.
Doesn't matter much though as there apparently wasn't any early prevention there, and he ended up being monitored by the state in juvie, etc. etc.
But for a full feature set of monitoring capabilities, well, using them all is probably a bad idea.
That's the difference (in my mind) between parenting and *electronic monitoring* - which is something I find completely misguided at best, and utterly reprehensible in practice.
-40hz (October 07, 2013, 09:25 AM)
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So it's the degree? The "complete control" thing is what bothers you?
For the most part, I think that's right. (With the caveat that some kids actually NEED extreme discipline - I'm sure everyone knows the self-destructive types.)
While it may "take a village" to raise a child (and I have my doubts about that theory folk mantra as well) it certainly doesn't require software and an electronic device to do it.
-40hz (October 07, 2013, 09:25 AM)
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I hate that saying. ;)
You can't attempt to automate social responsibility or parenting without losing some of our humanity in the process.
-40hz (October 07, 2013, 09:25 AM)
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Some people will certainly try! ;D
There are so, so many ways for us to surrender our humanity... And so, so many people willing to throw theirs away...
Keep us 'safe'! Yeah, right.
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