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Am I the only person that has a real big problem with software like this?

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Renegade:
It sounds like you're raising your kids to be adults. ;) Props to you!  :Thmbsup
-Renegade (October 04, 2013, 08:07 AM)
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I agree. That's a far better approach than to take the easy way out and teach them that stealthed electronic eavesdropping and surveillance are to be expected - and a normal and necessary part of what constitutes American life.

Sad how far so many of us have fallen. And even worse, how blissfully unaware (when not in active denial) we are about it.

But it's been said before: The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

And right now it looks more and more like we're saying: "The heck with a road! Let's build a superhighway to get us there."
-40hz (October 04, 2013, 10:16 AM)
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Hahaha! :D

I think a more accurate version would be "the (super) Highway to Hell is paved with VOTES." :P 8) (Love AC-DC!)

Well, I don't think 8-year olds know much about all that stuff, which is kind of why it's probably a good thing to shield them from some of the nastiness out there. Let them be kids. Dig for worms. Climb trees. etc.

But when it comes to the digital world, I don't see how it benefits a 9-year old to know about where in the real world we have people decapitating other people then replacing their head with goat heads in a pentagram for a black magic zombie animation ritual. That wasn't made up. That happens. And it doesn't need to be a part of growing up. That can be left for the adults or "new adults" to deal with.

Monitoring adults is one thing, but for parents to take care of their kids through some degree of monitoring is another thing entirely.

However, it's a matter of degrees. A 10-year old isn't a 16-year old, and you can't treat them the same.

wraith808:
I have heard this one before. Isn't this basically the same justification that governments use for spying on their citizens?
-app103 (October 04, 2013, 09:42 AM)
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No, not exactly.  My children are growing up and discovering themselves.  I want that to be their discovery.  I also want to trust that they will make the right decisions.  But, in truth, there's no way to know that they will.

The world is very unforgiving, and for all of our posturing about second chances, they're really few and far between.

So, I let them know that the phone, the computer, and even their rooms are not theirs.  They are given stewardship over them.  And because I have given them these things we both have responsibilities. Them, to do the right thing.  And me to make sure that they do.  It's my business to know what they are doing, where they are, who they are with... and its their responsibility to tell me and to do the right thing.  And we'll build on mutual respect from that foundation.  As they respect me, I'll respect them.

Do I read every e-mail, GPS them, listen in on their phone calls, check their bank accounts?  Not as a rule.  I have too much of my own to keep track of, and would rather get that information from them and trust them to do what we said.  And know that because we talk and because we hash out things and because I'm not arbitrarily authoritarian and we can rationally discuss any issues that they will be equipped to make any decisions that come their way.

But...

Trust, but Verify.

I rarely tell them what to do.  But when I do, they listen, because I don't use that power often or arbitrarily.  Growing is a process, and without guidance and direction and nurturing, who can be expected to do it alone?

So, the difference then.

With the government, you pay your taxes.  You pay for your stuff.  You pay for the services.  Then they spy on you arbitrarily and give you no respect.

That's the difference... mutual respect, and interest in well being rather than self-interest.

Renegade:
So, I let them know that the phone, the computer, and even their rooms are not theirs.  They are given stewardship over them.  And because I have given them these things we both have responsibilities. Them, to do the right thing.  And me to make sure that they do.  It's my business to know what they are doing, where they are, who they are with... and its their responsibility to tell me and to do the right thing.  And we'll build on mutual respect from that foundation.  As they respect me, I'll respect them.
-wraith808 (October 04, 2013, 10:56 AM)
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 :Thmbsup: :Thmbsup: :Thmbsup: :Thmbsup: :Thmbsup:

wraith808:
Well, I don't think 8-year olds know much about all that stuff, which is kind of why it's probably a good thing to shield them from some of the nastiness out there. Let them be kids. Dig for worms. Climb trees. etc.

But when it comes to the digital world, I don't see how it benefits a 9-year old to know about where in the real world we have people decapitating other people then replacing their head with goat heads in a pentagram for a black magic zombie animation ritual. That wasn't made up. That happens. And it doesn't need to be a part of growing up. That can be left for the adults or "new adults" to deal with.

Monitoring adults is one thing, but for parents to take care of their kids through some degree of monitoring is another thing entirely.

However, it's a matter of degrees. A 10-year old isn't a 16-year old, and you can't treat them the same.
-Renegade (October 04, 2013, 10:45 AM)
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This.  Definitely this.  Recently I got a bit heated because my daughter was over a sleep-over, and the girls were going around the room saying who they had a crush on.  My daughter said no one.  One of the girls asked her if she was gay and the others laughed.

This is 10-12 year olds.

She dealt with it well, saying that she was more concerned with school and her friends than some boy that probably didn't know she existed, and definitely didn't care about her.  And this wasn't something that we put in her by rote.  It was her own thoughts.

And so, though I hated that she had to go through it (and that her friend that invited her didn't stand up with her), I was proud of the fact that she made her own decision and didn't go with the crowd.

40hz:
Interesting note:

Although the AlternativeTo webpage talked about monitoring children, I didn't see any mention of that on the product's decidedly unusual website. In fact, there was little mention of what it should be used for.

Sounds like an excellent tool for jealous significant others, jilted lovers, closet pedophiles ("She's not my 18-year old daughter daughter officer! She's only my live-in girlfriend's daughter!"), psychos, pervs, big-brother employers (on company issued smartphones), rogue police officials, wacky politicos, whistleblower-hunters, shady private investigators, and a raft of other weird types as well.

I know it's easy (and sometimes accurate) call all technology a double-edged sword. But some technology makes certain types of unacceptable behavior easy to the point where it almost encourages it.

I personally think the child-monitoring "suggested use" for this product got tacked on - either as an afterthought - or with the intent of deflecting criticism and/or to defuse some potential legal complications for the developer down the road.

I say this because "protecting our children" might be the only (in some people's mind) acceptable use for a product like this. As opposed to the hundred or so unacceptable uses that might spring too readily to mind.

Dunno. I think I'm calling "Bullshit!" on this developer. :-\

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