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Silk Road Seized - Dread Pirate Roberts Arrested
wraith808:
I already said (anything remotely close to) blanket snooping is wrong (see above).
But how do you think all arrests are made, I mean in other times in history? Take any case from the 20th century or whenever before the current NSA era. Listening to communication to catch bad and evil people has helped and certainly nothing new, not even a 20th century invention.
This is exactly what I am talking. In the face of an evil authoritarian and corporate take over of our world we are doing and saying things that will do nothing to improve the world, just play in the hands of those who want this world this way.
-rgdot (October 03, 2013, 01:17 PM)
--- End quote ---
You catch them with good old fashioned police work. Do I think that targeted intelligence operations against people that are build upon the systemic gathering of evidence and the layering of work upon work are wrong? No.
But do I think that spying against everyone on the chance that you will gather information from the few is wrong? Emphatically yes.
And if people are caught using this manner, does the fact that you caught a bad person absolve you of the responsibility for using the wrong methods. Emphatically no.
In fact, if this evidentiary trail was submitted in any reputable court of law under the rule of law, then the whole case should, by the same rule of law that you're trying them under, be thrown out.
Stoic Joker:
In fact, if this evidentiary trail was submitted in any reputable court of law under the rule of law, then the whole case should, by the same rule of law that you're trying them under, be thrown out.-wraith808 (October 03, 2013, 03:07 PM)
--- End quote ---
Do we actually have any reputable courts left? Judges just hate having a disappointed crowd when folks show up for a hanging only to find out the guy ain't guilty... ;)
Sorry, couldn't resist having a bit of fun. I agree with you in principal...I just fear that those ideals - put in place to protect us from tyranny by the founding fathers - are from a time that has passed.
rgdot:
You catch them with good old fashioned police work. Do I think that targeted intelligence operations against people that are build upon the systemic gathering of evidence and the layering of work upon work are wrong? No.
But do I think that spying against everyone on the chance that you will gather information from the few is wrong? Emphatically yes.
And if people are caught using this manner, does the fact that you caught a bad person absolve you of the responsibility for using the wrong methods. Emphatically no.
In fact, if this evidentiary trail was submitted in any reputable court of law under the rule of law, then the whole case should, by the same rule of law that you're trying them under, be thrown out.
-wraith808 (October 03, 2013, 03:07 PM)
--- End quote ---
Sorry to be blunt, you have said nothing new here and nothing I said was in disagreement with this either.
But, one thing I guarantee is this. The difference, operationally speaking, between the first two paragraphs is smaller than you think. In a big percentage of cases a wide net to search for suspects is the starting point.
wraith808:
But how do you think all arrests are made, I mean in other times in history? Take any case from the 20th century or whenever before the current NSA era. Listening to communication to catch bad and evil people has helped and certainly nothing new, not even a 20th century invention.
-rgdot (October 03, 2013, 01:17 PM)
--- End quote ---
It seems from your statement, I have said something new that you seem to disagree with. There has never been the blanket level of surveillance that we are seeing. If you go back to the 20th century, there was even the fall of a president based upon illegal surveillance.
Now? People would shrug and go about their business, saying it was business as usual.
You might have a wide net as far as suspects, but to get a warrant for wiretapping on each one of these suspects, and put such an operation in place is very much a check and balance on their power. Why else do you think they want to do away with it? If it was already par for the course, then this wouldn't be an issue.
Renegade:
The feds have "seized" a lot of BTC. Here's where it reportedly is:
https://blockchain.info/address/1F1tAaz5x1HUXrCNLbtMDqcw6o5GNn4xqX
Check the amount and last transaction.
Silk Road Seized - Dread Pirate Roberts Arrested
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