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Knight to queen's bishop 3 - Snowden charged with espionage.
Renegade:
True, there does have to be a certain level of trust. But lying by omission is still lying- but not necessarily bad faith. So having a budget of $500 on a purchase, and not telling the other person your true budget or telling a different budget and driving a hard bargain based on that, prepared to if it comes to the wall to increase that amount... is that lying? Or good bargaining tactics?
-wraith808 (October 28, 2013, 10:26 PM)
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Lying is lying. And perhaps lying is a good bargaining tactic in some cases. By the same token, stealing whatever you want when you can get away with it is good for your pocketbook. The end result doesn't change whether or not you are lying or stealing.
It's not as black and white as it may appear, IMO.
-wraith808 (October 28, 2013, 10:26 PM)
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I think it is. And I think that the "gray area" argument is simply for people that want to gloss over lying when it's convenient for them.
Whether or not you think it is acceptable to lie has zero bearing on whether or not something you say is a lie. Similarly, who the speaker is has no bearing on the truth or falsity of their statements, i.e. culture is irrelevant to truth.
The question then is how comfortable people are with lying. Politicians are obviously extremely comfortable with it.
It's nice to make excuses that make us feel better about what we do sometimes. But I think it's likely better to simply recognize what we do for what it is, rather than try to rationalize. Otherwise, we are only lying to ourselves about our own lies.
Ends do not justify means.
The question of "good/bad faith" is one of intention. That's something that is much more difficult to deal with.
But then, that's just my own take on it.
Renegade:
Ooops... I forgot to add: Fight fire with fire. ;)
tomos:
Ooops... I forgot to add: Fight fire with fire. ;)
-Renegade (October 29, 2013, 04:46 AM)
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I'm not sure what you mean there, but for some reason I had the idea of drinking a lot of liquids, then--if you're a bloke anway--you're prepared in case you meet a fire.
No, I didnt even necessarily mean alcoholic liquids (sober here btw/fwiw).
dr_andus:
Good to see that Snowden's original actions are starting to have some real effect on the political machinery. All these developments appear to justify his actions: if he hadn't revealed all this, then unconstitutional and illegal activities by shadowy government agencies would go on unchecked. It will be increasingly more difficult for the US govt to argue that he is simply a criminal.
NSA: Dianne Feinstein breaks ranks to oppose US spying on allies
Feinstein's statement comes at a crucial time for the NSA. Legislation will be introduced in Congress on Tuesday that would curtail the agency's powers, and there are the first signs that the White House may be starting to distance itself from security chiefs.
On Tuesday morning, James Sensenbrenner, the Wisconsin Republican and author of the 2001 Patriot Act, will introduce a bill called the USA Freedom Act that will ban warrantless bulk phone metadata collection and prevent the NSA from querying its foreign communications databases for identifying information on Americans. Patrick Leahy, the Vermont Democrat who chairs the Senate judiciary committee, will introduce the bill's Senate counterpart that same day.
Also on Tuesday, the two most senior intelligence leaders are due to testify before the House intelligence committee.
Feinstein's shifting position was not the only emerging challenge confronting the NSA late Monday. A new disclosure from the Electronic Frontier Foundation added to the agency's woes by suggesting that it began testing means to gather location data on cellphones inside the US before informing the secret surveillance court that oversees it.
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40hz:
David Cameron threatened on Monday to act to stop newspapers publishing what he called damaging leaks from former U.S. intelligence operative Edward Snowden.
"If they don't demonstrate some social responsibility it will be very difficult for government to stand back and not to act," Cameron told parliament.
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More on this story over at Techdirt.
I'm wondering how many more heavy handed attempts will be made at derailing the revelations before somebody with access to the documents decides to do a preemptive mass data dump of the entire remaining collection?
:huh:
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