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Knight to queen's bishop 3 - Snowden charged with espionage.
Stoic Joker:
So if they already knew how to prevent...this... WTF happened?
-Stoic Joker (June 25, 2013, 07:07 AM)
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I think you're seeing yet another manifestation of The Snafu Principle which says: Clear and accurate communication is only possible between equals.
etc... (I didn't want to quote the whole thing).-40hz (June 25, 2013, 07:55 AM)
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This strikes me as the downside of 'Big Picture' logic, as it's frequently the lame assed excuse reason given for this type of nonsense. The speaker is generally smugly sure of their eruditely pinnacle as they explain to the listener that they simply don't understand the 'Big Picture'.
In reality when you zoom out to see said 'Big Picture' the actually relevant fact and details are so minuscule-ly obscured...that the only thing you really have a clear view of is who's political ass appears to be the most tasty.
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On a side note: Your level of detailed insight on this stuff is truly frightening at time. :D
40hz:
On a side note: Your level of detailed insight on this stuff is truly frightening at time.
-Stoic Joker (June 25, 2013, 05:05 PM)
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Think of me as Shepherd Book character in Firefly... ;)
***
Capt. Malcolm Reynolds: It's of interest to me how much you seem to know about that world.
Shepherd Book: I wasn't born a shepherd, Mal.
Capt. Malcolm Reynolds: You have to tell me about that sometime.
Shepherd Book: [pause] No, I don't.
8)
wraith808:
Ok...it's 17:15 EDT on 25-Jun-2013.
Mssr. Putin has just confirmed Mr. Snowden is currently standing in the 'international area' in Moscow's airport.
The US is insisting Russia has the legal authority to expel him immediately, and is insisting they do so.
-40hz (June 25, 2013, 04:16 PM)
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Tom Hanks lived in an airport for ages and he's done alright for himself.
On a side note: Your level of detailed insight on this stuff is truly frightening at time.
-Stoic Joker (June 25, 2013, 05:05 PM)
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Think of me as Shepherd Book character in Firefly... ;)
***
Capt. Malcolm Reynolds: It's of interest to me how much you seem to know about that world.
Shepherd Book: I wasn't born a shepherd, Mal.
Capt. Malcolm Reynolds: You have to tell me about that sometime.
Shepherd Book: [pause] No, I don't.
8)
-40hz (June 25, 2013, 05:18 PM)
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That was at once the coolest and the most infuriating line Whedon's ever written. :)
Stoic Joker:
Ok...it's 17:15 EDT on 25-Jun-2013.
Mssr. Putin has just confirmed Mr. Snowden is currently standing in the 'international area' in Moscow's airport.
The US is insisting Russia has the legal authority to expel him immediately, and is insisting they do so.
-40hz (June 25, 2013, 04:16 PM)
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Tom Hanks lived in an airport for ages and he's done alright for himself.
-wraith808 (June 25, 2013, 05:35 PM)
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...And I was trying so incredibly hard not to go there. :)
40hz:
And so the game continues...
Moscow moves (from TheWEEK):
...Putin dismissed Washington's demand that Russia return Snowden to face espionage charges, saying Russia had no grounds to arrest him.
Refusing to send Snowden back to the U.S. could cost Putin diplomatically. U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry lashed out at Moscow for giving Snowden a safe stopover en route — according to several reports — to Ecuador, where he has requested asylum. Putin, however, has several reasons to thumb his nose at the U.S.
The reason Putin gave publicly was that Snowden had committed no crime since arriving in Russia on a flight from Hong Kong. "We can only send back some foreign nationals to the countries with which we have the relevant international agreements on extradition," Putin said. "With the United States we have no such agreement."
The Russian leader probably has other motives, too. But Andrew Ryvkin at Britain's Guardian says that the most obvious one — picking Snowden's brains for intelligence secrets — is not why Putin is holding out. After all, Ryvkin says, Moscow has its own "(albeit weaker) NSA with spies, satellites, cryptography specialists, and a general understanding of an intelligence agency's modus operandi that is far beyond that of any journalist or civilian in the U.S." What it does not have, he adds, is an abundance of opportunities to stick its finger in the American government's eye.
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Washington makes a counter-move:
From the BBC (full article here)
Obama refuses to barter for Edward Snowden
President Obama "not going to be scrambling jets to get Snowden"
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President Barack Obama has said there will be no "wheeling and dealing" as part of extradition efforts against US intelligence leaker Edward Snowden.
Speaking on a visit to the West African nation of Senegal, Mr Obama also said the case would be dealt with through routine legal channels.
"I am not going to be scrambling jets to get a 29-year-old hacker," he added.
Mr Snowden, who faces espionage charges, flew to Moscow last weekend and requested asylum in Ecuador.
Mr Obama said on Thursday that he had not called China and Russia's presidents about the case, adding: "I shouldn't have to."
He told a news conference in the Senegalese capital Dakar: "I'm not going to have one case of a suspect who we're trying to extradite suddenly being elevated to the point where I've got to start doing wheeling and dealing and trading on a whole host of other issues."
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Ecuador moves next (from the BBC):
Meanwhile, Ecuador's government said on Thursday that it had not processed Mr Snowden's asylum request because he had not reached any of its diplomatic premises.
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Washington counters (from Bloomberg):
...U.S. Senator Robert Menendez, the New Jersey Democrat who is chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, said he would lead the effort to block renewal of trade preferences for Ecuador if it granted Snowden asylum. The Andean nation has been lobbying the U.S. congress to renew the preferences, known as ATPDEA, which are due to expire next month.
“Our government will not reward countries for bad behavior,” Menendez said yesterday in a statement. “If Snowden is granted asylum in Ecuador, I will lead the effort to prevent the renewal of Ecuador’s duty-free access under GSP and will also make sure there is no chance for renewal of the Andean Trade Promotion and Drug Eradication Act. Trade preferences are a privilege granted to nations, not a right.”
Ecuador would lose at least 40,000 jobs if the trade preferences aren’t renewed, the nation’s Ambassador to the U.S. Nathalie Cely said last year. While most of the $1.01 billion in exports to the U.S. in April were oil, shipments also included more labor intensive products such as cut flowers, broccoli and shrimp. Exports fell from $1.14 billion in April 2012, according to U.S. Census data.
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Ecuador moves (from the BBC):
Ecuador also renounced a $23m (£15m) trade relationship it has with the US, saying its forthcoming renewal would not influence any decision on Mr Snowden's case.
"Ecuador will not accept pressures or threats from anyone, and it does not traffic in its values or allow them to be subjugated to mercantile interests," said government spokesman Fernando Alvarado.
He also made an apparently tongue-in-cheek offer of economic aid to the US for human rights training.
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