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Worth Reading: Trevor Pott's editorial on NSA PRISM and its real ramifications
wraith808:
SO, is that an advocation for anarchy? Even when there *is* no system, the people will still gravitate towards the stronger dominating the weaker. It will just be more chaotic. It's unfortunately human nature. So at least with a codified rule of law, its less so.
Stoic Joker:
Blaming the system strikes me as being almost nihilistic. Because if all/any systems are problematic then it really doesn't leave any room for improvement. Some hierarchical order of responsibility is necessary if the "page" that everyone is to be on is to be kept track of. However...
The "government" is nothing but a group of people running the show. That group of people have turned out to be the elite "in crowd". They are mostly people that have been groomed for their positions all their lives, like the Bush's, like father, like son....-Tinman57 (July 20, 2013, 08:31 PM)
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It also strikes me that a large part of said "grooming" process consists of a deeply ingrained sense of entitlement, a disconnected and rarefied sense of reality, and a reflexive need to gravitate towards big picture thinking. You see the individual is irrelevant by design in big picture logic ... and the realities of the damage caused to real individual people by a bad decision are carefully obscured.
These people are so distance from the realities of the life of the common that they can't help but screw up. A military example would be the difference between taking off in a plane, flying over a town, dropping a few bombs, and gong home again...and having to spend days on foot getting to a target, and then killing them face to face. Government, gets to be distances an even further degree, by merely needing to sign something that puts the wheels in motion, and then going on with their day.
It's no wonder these people constantly screw-up ... I could almost pity them if they weren't destroying our lives in the process.
Renegade:
SO, is that an advocation for anarchy?
-wraith808 (July 21, 2013, 08:09 AM)
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Yes. I'm out of the closet on that. :P
Even when there *is* no system, the people will still gravitate towards the stronger dominating the weaker. It will just be more chaotic. It's unfortunately human nature. So at least with a codified rule of law, its less so.
-wraith808 (July 21, 2013, 08:09 AM)
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I think you have a flawed perception of what anarchism is. Here is a very short list of a few people to look into that can help clarify things:
Larken Rose
Stefan Molyneux
Doug Casey
Jeff Berwick
Noam Chomsky
Lots more out there.
Just look at your daily life and how for the vast majority of things you do not require some nanny to guide/force you do get things done without going postal. THAT is human nature - we are inherently peaceful and cooperative. Hobbes was an asshole. :P
Blaming the system strikes me as being almost nihilistic.
-Stoic Joker (July 21, 2013, 08:18 AM)
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Not in the least bit. People tend to have a very skewed perception of anarchism/voluntaryism, and it isn't what most people think.
For the simplest view of it, just look into the non-aggression principle.
Because if all/any systems are problematic then it really doesn't leave any room for improvement.
-Stoic Joker (July 21, 2013, 08:18 AM)
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Not at all. The assumption there that you've made but not articulated is that the system must be artificial or intentional. It is perfectly well possible to have spontaneous order that isn't directed by corrupt and criminal politicians.
Some hierarchical order of responsibility is necessary if the "page" that everyone is to be on is to be kept track of. However...
-Stoic Joker (July 21, 2013, 08:18 AM)
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Why must there be an accounting system? Why keep track of everything? Why must everything be "controlled"?
We don't need hierarchies of criminality to steal from us or kidnap and imprison peaceful people for doing nothing wrong.
However...
The "government" is nothing but a group of people running the show. That group of people have turned out to be the elite "in crowd". They are mostly people that have been groomed for their positions all their lives, like the Bush's, like father, like son....-Tinman57 (July 20, 2013, 08:31 PM)
--- End quote ---
It also strikes me that a large part of said "grooming" process consists of a deeply ingrained sense of entitlement, a disconnected and rarefied sense of reality, and a reflexive need to gravitate towards big picture thinking. You see the individual is irrelevant by design in big picture logic ... and the realities of the damage caused to real individual people by a bad decision are carefully obscured.
-Stoic Joker (July 21, 2013, 08:18 AM)
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Numerous atrocities have been committed in the name of "the greater good".
Charity that is obtained through force and coercion is nothing more than violence and fraud.
Here's the real big picture: We are slaves through our belief in a criminal system where fraud, theft, kidnapping, torture, murder, and mass murder are all justified one way or another.
These people are so distance from the realities of the life of the common that they can't help but screw up. A military example would be the difference between taking off in a plane, flying over a town, dropping a few bombs, and gong home again...and having to spend days on foot getting to a target, and then killing them face to face. Government, gets to be distances an even further degree, by merely needing to sign something that puts the wheels in motion, and then going on with their day.
-Stoic Joker (July 21, 2013, 08:18 AM)
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BINGO!
Government is nothing more than than fraud, theft, kidnapping, torture, and mass murder by proxy. Today when you "support the troops", you are supporting mass murder by proxy. Tax is just theft by proxy.
It's no wonder these people constantly screw-up ... I could almost pity them if they weren't destroying our lives in the process.
-Tinman57 (July 20, 2013, 08:31 PM)
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If you can get on Jitsi, I have a reference that you might find interesting. I can't post it in public though.
40hz:
^Ok...and now that it's out of the closet, would it be possible to move the sub-discussion on anarchy and all the 'anti-everything in general' advocacy over to its own thread? :)
wraith808:
Defund NSA Surveillance: A critical vote is happening tomorrow, July 24th, on the Defense Appropriations Bill in the House of Representatives. The bill gives taxpayer money to fund defense programs, including NSA surveillance.
Defund the NSA (misnamed, but oh well), and a link to HR-2397.
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