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Worth Reading: Trevor Pott's editorial on NSA PRISM and its real ramifications
Renegade:
Nice analogy provided by Stilgherrian over at ZDnet. (Full article here)
-40hz (July 13, 2013, 06:56 AM)
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If he's going to mention the 70s, might as well mention Project SHAMROCK:
http://www.faqs.org/espionage/Nt-Pa/Operation-Shamrock.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_SHAMROCK
No... None of the recent revelations expose anything "recent". They only expose how things have accelerated "thanks" to the wonders of modern technology.
Got to love it when ex-Stasi officers come out talking about what they're seeing here, and how it puts what they did to shame.
I turned out to have US colleagues, looking for ways to migrate to Europe .......... to get away from the US way of life, to bring their kids in safety.
...I did have US colleagues, who were looking for ways to migrate to Europe ..........
-MohKraats (July 20, 2013, 07:01 AM)
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Europe has a proven track record. Not so sure it's ideal...
But I don't think that running is the answer anymore. However, there are quite a lot of people that do think running is the answer, e.g. Doug Casey, Jeff Berwick, etc. There are businesses that specialize in helping Americans get out of the US and dump their citizenship. Galt's Gulch anyone? Given the 100%+ tax rate in France, I imagine there's a French translation for that, but my French isn't that good.
You (or anyone else) might want to consider at least quickly browsing through the works of R. J. Rummel. Those that prefer videos or documentaries may wish to watch "It Can't Happen Here" by Larken Rose.
Those can help provide some perspective that you will not get in casual conversation with friends (unless you know a bunch of "fruit cakes" like me) or ever see in the mainstream news.
Nowadays I look westwards in fear.
Scared by a police-state where there is no freedom no more, where human-rights have no value.
A state that is to scary to live in.
-MohKraats (July 20, 2013, 07:01 AM)
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It is very scary, but there are things people can do to make it less so.
40hz:
Relocation is no longer an option. Because these policies and practices are spreading everywhere. Much like in the book On the Beach where the survivors of a global nuclear exchange soon realize that living in Australia has only bought them about a year's respite before the fatal level of fallout radiation reaches them too.
Stealthing, encryption, and related technological "privacy solutions" are not sustainable strategies. Because it will only lead to endless cycles of escalation. And the side with the deepest pockets and the most manpower will almost always triumph in the end despite any romantic illusions the hacker cult has about that "lone computer genius" triumphing over the brutal industrial state. If you want to believe that bit of fiction, content yourself with reading sci-fi books and daydreaming about it in your spare time. Otherwise you'll have plenty of time to fantasize while sitting in a jail cell should you ever seriously buy into it.
Surveillance and abuse of government power is NOT a technical problem. It is a PEOPLE problem. Romania didn't oust it's surveillance loving tyrant with software. Nor did Germany ditch it's hated Stasi with some clever computer hacks. Things got changed when the general population got angry and finally removed their oppressors from their positions of power and control.
Want to get a handle on the problem and start correcting it? Stop looking at technology and realize you will eventually need to go outside, away from your mouse and hi-def video display, and put your own precious butt on the line. That is the only way real change ever gets accomplished when the current social situation has gotten entirely out of control.
This doesn't presume violent confrontation either. Canada won it's independence without the need to fire a single shoot. As did Russia mostly, with no violence - other than the years and years of violence done by the Soviet government against its people - which led up to its being tossed out.
Mantra for the upcoming struggle: Technology is not the problem. Laws are not the problem. PEOPLE in our GOVERNMENT are the problem.
The way to get this to end is to look no further than Terry Pratchette's book Hogfather. Simply adopt the technique taught by the nanny Susan to her children, who were frightened to fall asleep because there was a monster hiding in their bedroom.
When asked by an adult if she is still afraid of monsters, one of Susan's charges says "no." And then adds: "Susan says, don't get afraid, get angry."
That's a message worth repeating: Don't get afraid, get angry.
8)
Renegade:
@40hz - eloquent as always. ;)
A quick comment or 3 on this:
Technology is not the problem. Laws are not the problem. PEOPLE in our GOVERNMENT are the problem.
-40hz (July 20, 2013, 09:21 AM)
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Technology is not the problem.
-40hz (July 20, 2013, 09:21 AM)
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Absolutely! They are mere tools. Too many people don't understand that there is nothing innately good/evil about a hammer, fork, spoon, car, screwdriver, etc.
Laws are not the problem.
-40hz (July 20, 2013, 09:21 AM)
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They don't really have any kind of existence - they're merely extensions of people, and an invisible set of bars to keep people in line. But, long discussion there that's better skipped.
PEOPLE in our GOVERNMENT are the problem.
-40hz (July 20, 2013, 09:21 AM)
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I'm not so sure about that. I'm more inclined to say that government is the problem. It's just a silly bunch of "good intentions" that are paving the road to Hell. Does it matter whether you start with the psychotic, priviledged political class there, or is it too long to wait 6 months for the naive newbie to start down his own path to the dark side?
If you start off with the idea that it's bad to kidnap, steal, defraud, and murder... EXCEPT if you happen to be part of a special ruling class... is it any wonder that things turn out badly?
A & -A
From there you can derive anything.
Should we be surprised that when we base our entire society on force and violence, that things always end up as force and violence?
Tinman57:
PEOPLE in our GOVERNMENT are the problem.
-40hz (July 20, 2013, 09:21 AM)
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I'm not so sure about that. I'm more inclined to say that government is the problem. It's just a silly bunch of "good intentions" that are paving the road to Hell. Does it matter whether you start with the psychotic, priviledged political class there, or is it too long to wait 6 months for the naive newbie to start down his own path to the dark side?
-Renegade (July 20, 2013, 10:40 AM)
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I think he was saying it's the actual politicians that are the problem. The "government" is nothing but a group of people running the show. That group of people have turned out to be the elite "in crowd". They are mostly people that have been groomed for their positions all their lives, like the Bush's, like father, like son....
Renegade:
PEOPLE in our GOVERNMENT are the problem.
-40hz (July 20, 2013, 09:21 AM)
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I'm not so sure about that. I'm more inclined to say that government is the problem. It's just a silly bunch of "good intentions" that are paving the road to Hell. Does it matter whether you start with the psychotic, priviledged political class there, or is it too long to wait 6 months for the naive newbie to start down his own path to the dark side?
-Renegade (July 20, 2013, 10:40 AM)
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I think he was saying it's the actual politicians that are the problem. The "government" is nothing but a group of people running the show. That group of people have turned out to be the elite "in crowd". They are mostly people that have been groomed for their positions all their lives, like the Bush's, like father, like son....
-Tinman57 (July 20, 2013, 08:31 PM)
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Yes - that's what 40hz was saying. I simply think that the focus is misplaced. e.g. You said:
The "government" is nothing but a group of people running the show. -Tinman57 (July 20, 2013, 08:31 PM)
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I think THAT is the problem.
Whoever is in the government is less important as they always degenerate into frenzied orgies of mass murder. Rummel has some decent graphs that illustrate that:
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/NOTE5.HTM#FIG
He backs it all up with facts and data.
One thing that should be noted though is size matters. The distinction is drawn out several times in "Industrial Society and Its Future" with emphasis on individuals and "SMALL GROUPS".
Anyways... 40hz pointed out that he sees a problem with the PEOPLE. I think the problem is the SYSTEM. I do not mean whether it is democratic, autocratic, theocratic or anything of the sort. I'm saying the problem there is that there *IS* a system, and I am not placing any particular blame on any given system or any given faction within any system of government.
To draw that out into a bit clearer terms, not only do I not see any difference between the left/right or republicans/democrats or liberals/conservatives, etc., I don't see any important differences between the many variations on government that you see in different places, e.g. US, UK, China, Russia, Venezuela, Cuba, Canada, Australia, Jordan, etc. They all have systems of government founded on force, coercion, fraud, and violence. Once that's in place, it's largely irrelevant WHO runs the show.
But, I'm just a batshit crazy renegade. :P :D
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