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Worth Reading: Trevor Pott's editorial on NSA PRISM and its real ramifications

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barney:
It's been interesting to read the interchange(s) 'tween Renegade and wraith808, but methinks 40hz hath the right of it.  I've been a practising anarchist, within current governmental and societal restraints, for years - basically, helping others with things I have or can do.  (A few of you know that, btw  ;).)  However, we are constrained to work within the limits imposed by our current society, government notwithstanding.  If something is doable within those limits, all fine and well.  If not, we are damned by our own society, whether we support it or not.  If we have allowed PRISM, et. al., there are naught to blame but ourselves.  Star room conferences will always exist, in any societal configuration - can't prevent them, and rarely able to counter/circumvent them.

In order to make change, we have to work within the current system or overthrow that system.  Overthrow is unlikely in the extreme, but change is possible, however unlikely.

Anyway, I'm enjoying the conversations.

wraith808:
continued OT discussion
If we have allowed PRISM, et. al., there are naught to blame but ourselves.
-barney (July 31, 2013, 12:00 AM)
--- End quote ---

I have a *real* problem with that statement.



The people that are responsible for those actions are solely responsible.  If now that they are visible, we do nothing, then we are responsible for letting it continue.  But they are responsible for their own actions, and should be held accountable.  That statement is one of the problems... we say "we get the government we deserve", and enable their continued transgressions by not holding their individual and several feet to the fire, because it's our fault.

The government is not an entity.  It is a collection of people elected to represent people as a whole.  And if they don't represent the will of the people, and the constitution that they are elected to uphold, then they need to be held accountable.  To do otherwise is insane- you're putting people in power over you that have no responsibility to you, other than to mollify you every two/four years.  That's insanity.

...well, at least in my opinion.  There needs to be a Reckoning, with a capital 'R'.

Renegade:
+1 for wraith.

OTAnd I wouldn't be opposed to a "Wreckening" either. :D

tomos:
Quote from: barney on Today at 07:00:11
If we have allowed PRISM, et. al., there are naught to blame but ourselves. /quote

I have a *real* problem with that statement.
-wraith808 (July 31, 2013, 09:08 AM)
--- End quote ---

SpoilerI think the "we get the government we deserve" bit is like the bigger picture. I'd phrase it differently myself:
the government do what they sense they'll get away with - sometimes they're wrong, but mostly they get that "what'll we get away with" bit down fairly well.

To me that view can exist quite comfortably with the idea that individuals are responsible for their actions. Which brings us back to the people - the politicians etc will only be held responsible for their actions when the general populace start thinking:
- "hey, that's not on - you cant get away with that >:( "

IainB:
The term "milquetoast" was an American expression, I think.

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