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We Are the Idiots

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40hz:
@SJ - can't say my personal experience with Fords, Buicks, Toyotas, and Nissans over the years syncs with what you're saying. My GF's job puts at least 50k miles on a car each year, and we're both shocked if we don't get at least 250k miles out of whatever we buy before we decide to retire it. But I'm not a mechanic. So if you're correct in your analysis, I guess we've just been far luckier than most car owners.

And if so - Yay! ;D

Shades:
I totally agree with Stoic Joker. When I was in the military, my unit had several brand new cars at our disposal, some were diesel, some were standard fuel.

The rule was that for us to do our job reliably, standard fuel cars needed to be replaced after 100.000 kilometer, the diesels were re-assigned to different duties after 150.000 kilometers. There was only one car (my favorite, a diesel) that was longer than a year with our unit.

Of course, it was the military, so the cars were not treated as "maintenance-friendly" as they could have been. Same attitude people have with lease-cars, I guess. All in all, the diesels were better survivors than the standard fuel cars, with a lot less maintenance costs. But in any case, 100.000 kilometer is really a "magic" number for any car.

Modern cars are not really more efficient with fuel than older cars. They're about the same. New cars are much heavier nowadays, because of all the safety features, noise cancelling padding and electric gizmo's that people take for granted now, but were highly coveted options a few years back.

With some TLC old cars last just as long as new ones. I heard often enough about people pushing cars over 1.000.000 kilometers. And the story of those people were almost always the same. The gist is/was: no wild driving and proper maintenance at very regular intervals, using only manufacturer/factory approved (engine) parts and lubricants.

Of course, spending a lot of money on an old(er) car to keep it running reliably or buying/trading in a car every few years likely won't matter much, cost-wise. Unless you are capable (know-how and having the necessary tools & equipment), which reduces incurred costs significantly. Anyhow, people will choose the latter way, just because they're addicted to the new car smell.

Ten years ago I had an 15+ year old Peugot 205D (the cheapest, most spartan model). It had a very basic, old-fashioned diesel engine and on average (including highways) it would consume 1 liter of diesel every 20 kilometer. If I skipped the highways and made an effort I could manage 25 kilometers per liter. And that with an engine that had already 300.000+ kilometers on the clock.

In my experience, diesels today, with common rail injection and what not, barely go 15 kilometers per liter, even when you make an effort. At least in Europe you hardly notice the difference between having a diesel or standard fuel engine in your car anymore. Road taxes, fuel prices and trade-in values are still quite different.


TL:DR
New cars are hardly better at anything than older cars. Other than giving the consumer a (false) sense of safety that is.
 

MilesAhead:
@SJ - can't say my personal experience with Fords, Buicks, Toyotas, and Nissans over the years syncs with what you're saying. My GF's job puts at least 50k miles on a car each year, and we're both shocked if we don't get at least 250k miles out of whatever we buy before we decide to retire it. But I'm not a mechanic. So if you're correct in your analysis, I guess we've just been far luckier than most car owners.

And if so - Yay! ;D
-40hz (December 11, 2014, 07:01 PM)
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That's totally within the normal if those are highway miles.  Stop and go around town is much tougher on everything than get on the highway and engage cruise control type driving.   I do have to admit my knowledge of the particulars is dated.  When I was working in the field it was transitioning from the vast majority of cars being rear wheel drive to the transversely mounted engine front wheel drive type.  My last job as a mechanic was in the 1980s sometime.  Once it became obvious I wasn't going to be a new car customer I lost interest in makes modes and features.  I determine the make of automobile by reading it on the car.  :)

But some principles remain the same.

Edit:  As far as longevity the autos I encountered that lasted the longest were Checker Cabs.  Now and then we would get one in for new tires and a front end alignment.  I swear they must need to put notches on the steering wheel to keep track of the odometer wrap around on those things.  I think they were only retired by being totaled in a collision.

40hz:
That's totally within the normal if those are highway miles.  Stop and go around town is much tougher on everything than get on the highway and engage cruise control type driving.
-MilesAhead (December 12, 2014, 09:27 AM)
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Good point! :Thmbsup: However, where we are (SW-CT) our highways are so congested that stop & go and highway crawl (typically between 5 and 40mph) is the rule rather than the exception during the work week. Poor planning, too few lanes (three on average), never-ending road work, and far too many entrances for a highway makes I-95 one of the worst routes in the country. CT is almost famous for it.



On I-95, the main N-S route through the state, traffic crawls from Porchester on the New York state line all the way through and past New Haven CT. That's roughly 55 miles of unpredictable speeds. On a Sunday morning I can easily go from where we live to Stamford in 22-23 minutes doing the speed limit. On a weekday between 7:00am and 8:30am, or 4:00pm till about 7:00pm, it takes at least an hour.

And cruise control? We don't get to use that much on the roads around where we live. I usually only engage it once we enter Massachusetts, Rhode Island or  New York north of The City. ;D

Stoic Joker:
If you have enough time to average 50,000 miles a year...that traffic can't be that bad.. ;) However the national average that insurance rates are based on is 15-20k per year. So at that rate we're looking at 7-8+ years to get over 100k, and that is plenty of time for the rubber chassis parts to start drying out and making the handling start getting sloppy.

MilesAhead nailed it with the highway mileage being easier on a vehicle. Car lots frequently use this phenomenon to explain away high odometer readings on really clean newish vehicles by simply stating that they were a "Salesman's Car" ... Meaning that they were frequently (or exclusively) used for long trips so the mileage on the clock is not (to be perceived as) a detractor. Highway miles tend to get put on a vehicle much faster so the rubber parts are still fresh...because they haven't had time to age, dry out, and start cracking.

Hell, just look at the progression of vehicle inventory through various types of car lots to see what the real  averages are:
 0-30k - Dealerships never want to have anything on the lot over 30k because they like to stick to the cream on the top and auction off the rest.
 20-40k - Reputable used car lots like vehicles in this range because they can still be sold high, and no major issues can be expected.
 50-70k - Still safe to buy from low budget lots that tend to focus on offering "affordable" cars..
 70-100k - Buy here/Pay here (because the bank won't touch it...), and the warranty if offered is extra...
 100k+ - Happy Sam's (over)used auto emporium. These are cash only operations that offer in-house financing at loan shark rates. That will frequently sell and then repo a vehicle upwards of 17 times before they just give up and crushing the damn thing for scrap metal. These people are known for what is referred to as a "Tail Light" warranty ... The instant the tail lights disappear off in the distance (or around the corner)...you stuck with it..

Our company has several vehicles also (vans of various sorts), and they average 20-30k+ per year. However their usage is primarily in the city so the constant stop and bake, then go like hell (ab)use causes then to wear out quite quickly. We never keep a vehicle past 150k because by that point they are worn out to the point of being scary and way too expensive to fix.

One other side note is that the environment the vehicle is operated in can also be a major factor. The Florida sun is flat-out brutal. So regardless of which brand/quality of windshield wipers I get, I'll never get more than 3 month out of them before they get cooked out to the point of being dangerously ineffective.

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