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They're Still Standing or On Passion in Programming or The Soultron Lesson

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Paul Keith:
I might have missed your reply in that post. I'm actually more of a hierarchies/tree guy and I would never defend tags over trees in isolation. Perhaps you could better explain where you got that impression or link back to the reply you wrote?

I perfectly know about the missing "market value" of these criteria, hence my search for people who are like those I cited in my intro post here-clean
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Marketing is not market value though. There are of course branches and departments nowadays but the heyday of marketing has been art value (product identity) meets people (customers/clients) using research (research/math/stats) in a never ending recycling package that works in harmony with the product.

People who're in search for excellence, notwithstanding the financial outcome. -clean
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See that's just not how excellent people work. People search financial outcome and become excellent provided the finances were good enough to supply and maintain their body and their tools. (Peace of mind also works.)

Here and then, I try to be a cynic, as I've got to know that being cynic is the way of the world, but then, I cherish the gifted heroes who do put their heart in what they do, and thus, it's not a coincidence that almost all of those artists I cited are young or very young: The drama of human existence being that for adult life, financial considerations MUST take over since without shifting your priorities, you won't be able to take care of your family: Society makes whores, and there's nothing that could ever be done about it, cf. these "free love" communities of "1968" that failed because of the "big shots" attracting the females, as in any traditional society formation, and the "neglected" men jumping out from an idea of "equal society" ( I don't bring links to sources here, but there's plenty of them).-clean
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There are certainly exceptions but most gifted passionate artists turn out to be young ALSO because they are the ultimate whores.

The olympics being one of the best example of this excellence where in boys as early as possible are indoctrinated into a particular activity of excellence to hone their passion on a particular sports even without being given an opportunity to have a choice outside of it.

Especially when the media, the tournament rankings and the top of the top niche communities know you, these boys end up having zero choice except to continue on with that path until their excellence allows them to step away from the rat race.

I conceived and propammed "Manuscript" in a way of endless improvement, implementing lots of high-brow features totally unknown at the time (and some of them, even today), and then, I got 5 "sales", for the crippled (I limited the number of possible items there) versions, and I thought by myself, "are these people buying my light version in order to steal my ideas, to do "re-engineering"? Which is to say, I didn't take the smallest "satisfaction" from these 5 sales, but they made me fearful, more fearful that I'd had ever been. (Thus my current emphesis on "legal" questions, since I'm fearing that some of my ideas in "Manuscript" could be - or have already been, without my knowlege? - could be patented by the U.S. Patent Office, so that in my own future pim prog, I would be a "criminal" to use my own ideas from 1995.)

Unfortunately, I choose another subject in university, beyond "IT" / programming, and I'm too old now in order to really learn programming from scratch. I've to admit that I feel some envy on being informed, by somebody like Neville, by his editor's price, and the number he claims to have sold this editor, when then making my multiplication. But then, I've never envied, in my whole life, people who did something really good, something really "completed": I CHERISH mastering, but I've got lots a probs with cold reasoning.

My "music" examples were about people who "went the extra mile", and who didn't mind if the financial outcome was on par - hence my departure with Vidgen in that competition and the same Vidgen later on, trying to "collect". Some months ago, I tried to convince "kinook", the people / man behind Ultra Recall, that "doing better" was to give him real financial benefits, when in fact, I don't really know about this.

Truths is, the "financial returns" aspect in programming doesn't interst me that much: As soon as you can make your living / survive with programming, you've got all your chances

TO MAKE PROGRAMMING AN ART.-clean
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Unfortunately art like life isn't fair too.

The reason some people can drop the financial outcome is because others (in society, in an economy, government, culture) are filling enough of their financial needs to live.

If artists have to hunt for food, they would have less time to do art.

That holds true too for a decent outliner. A decent outliner who can't outlaw the law and protect itself is not as decent as it claims to be. See my previous example.

You need threats to create excellence and you need threats to that excellence to better hone your outliner to be decent enough "against the unfair world".

A programmer who can't see the dangers of losing data won't develop better backup features or cross-platform or online sync.

This is just the tip of the iceberg too. Any artist have a responsibility to their art, to better know what would threaten their art.

It is not that this responsibility disappears but in a more developed country, institutions form structure that shield you from one vulnerability and over time expose you to their vulnerability. You simply can't hone and create great ideas without being under fire. You can only have someone do the menial work for the artist so the artist can fully offer his greatness to the world. That's how it has always been in the real world of the underdogs.

Those destined to fulfill great software are not born to conceive solutions, they are born to receive greater problems and conceive greater methods to survive against those problems. Over time, some slick salesman or marketing manager or opportunistic youngster will paint it as solutions but in truth there is no true solution that is ever attempted in this world that solves. It all starts with problems and greater problems and one time or the other someone builds a "solution" built to withstand all the incoming threats until it too passes away in myths, hero worship, brand personalities, etc.

Everything else is just Hollywood and lesser hollywood known as "His" "story" i.e. the story of the descendants of the winner.

And Paul, you're of my kind: We're some some people who try to be helpful to this world. We're one of a kind, when most people deciced to be nourrish their family. I can't even blame them, but then, I've got the right to be deeply disappointed with the way of this world I so much would like to improve. And to hell with cynics on outlinersoftware.com.-clean
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Thanks for the compliment but I'm not your kind.

I haven't given my soul to learning how to code, I haven't had any "fast assimilation" of anything. Software, hardware, etc.

Maybe the length of my posts give that illusion but even a slow turtle can't be compared to a moss covered rock. One of them will move on, the other will always be stuck.

You're also mistaken by saying I want to help the world. I can't even help myself.

I don't work towards helping the world. I work to survive and at times I receive a form of vanity or a form of psychological irrationality in which I'll do one of the following thanks to my cognitive blindness and bias:

- Discuss and then maybe get trapped into the illusion of arguing with someone because I want to communicate

- Want to communicate because someone is wrong on the internet

- Desire confirmation bias because I wasn't passionate enough in helping myself secure and realize the validity of my own ideas

- Desire contradicting opinions because I want someone to do all the work at pointing all the holes in my opinion

- Post a thread in a forum I've registered to because I'm too lazy to register to a new forum

- Share something because the act can fill me with dopamine

- Help someone because being registered to a group blinds my brain into forming an ingroup fallacy where I have to reciprocate my desire back to the group

The lists and the reasons go on and on and truth be told, I don't know any of this stuff besides what's often written in pop psychology but I know enough of myself to know that I don't spend the entire days of my life maximizing and optimizing a way to help the world, help part of the world, help my country, help part of my country, help people in my region. I don't even spend seconds thinking how to help the woman I love the most.

I'm just not that person and I apologize for whatever it is I wrote that gave you that false idea.

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