Main Area and Open Discussion > General Software Discussion
What went wrong with Linux on the Desktop
wraith808:
Those who are using Visual studio knows Why I am saying this, because microsoft's own programs make the system unusable.-mahesh2k (September 05, 2012, 04:58 AM)
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I've been running every single version (not every edition, of course!) and service pack of Visual Studio from 6 to 2010 SP1, and will soon be installing 2012. I've even been using VS on Win9x. While the first VS.NET version was pretty crappy and unstable, I've never had VS affect my system stability, and never heard of stories like that from friends or co-workers.-f0dder (September 06, 2012, 06:54 AM)
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Same here all the way back to 9x. Hell we've even got one guy that (does legacy stuff) is still doing VB code with VS6, on Windows 8.
-Stoic Joker (September 06, 2012, 07:20 AM)
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Same here... including unfortunately the VB code. Anything other than anecdotal evidence of this VS making the system unusable bit?
Sure, there's some nice things about OSX, and the build quality on some macbooks is better than a lot of non-OSX PCs. But there's plenty of problems as well, and plenty of funny security holes as well :-)
-f0dder (September 06, 2012, 06:54 AM)
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+1
They're all just tools, and all of them have their pros and cons.
TaoPhoenix:
... Your assumptions on its advantages are plain wrong, that's all.
Oh, right: Call it a flamebait when someone points out your mistakes. Well played.
-Tuxman (September 05, 2012, 05:21 AM)
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Hi Tux.
Since you asked elsewhere why people perceived you as a "troll", I picked this comment to look at. I have done some little mini-studies on quantifying semantics to put some math behind "qualitative" words such as "troll". (I am not the first, I even saw some news story that some big corps are patenting this stuff too, this is just my little variant.)
The short easy explanation borrows a phrase from somewhere called the "Golden Rule vs the Silver Rule". The Golden Rule is often stated as "treat others as you want to be treated". The problem is that people often end up in the Silver Rule, stated as "treat others as you *have been* treated". Aka, someone misfires a comment and then the series rolls along.
So with that as a backdrop, let's do some number crunching. An early starting point is to assign a number scale of "sharpness" to a comment that the person makes. Your first line is slightly sharp. The number scale can be anything that appeals to you. As a simple 0-10 scale, (with the zero being important!) 0 means perfectly balanced, 10 is boiling over with sharpness. I'd rate your first line about a 2. Nothing too bad, a little staccato, but okay.
But look at the second line! It's flanked by two (sharp / sarcastic / your choice of word) elements. I'd rate it at least a 4 as a pair.
Then it's just an algorithm. The average sharpness of comments eventually crosses a (somewhat fuzzy) line to what people begin calling "troll". Per person, that line moves up and down, but finally like a bell curve it converges. Does that help?
Tuxman:
A bit, thanks. :)
(OTOH this seems to be rather subjective. I mean, "4" is "medium trollness" (for you) where "trollness" is a synonym for sarcasm which is not actually a good idea. I might be sarcastic at times, but the difference between trolling and being sarcastic is that trolling is only destructive and not a good way to transport suggestions.)
TaoPhoenix:
A bit, thanks. :)
(OTOH this seems to be rather subjective. I mean, "4" is "medium trollness" (for you) where "trollness" is a synonym for sarcasm which is not actually a good idea. I might be sarcastic at times, but the difference between trolling and being sarcastic is that trolling is only destructive and not a good way to transport suggestions.)
-Tuxman (September 06, 2012, 08:29 AM)
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Aye, I have a lot more finesses behind my theory and I'm happy to start a thread maybe in the basement to thrash them out! You're quite right, there are elements of both each person's individual scales, and intention of the original person. And more. My early aim was to begin to use what I believe is your talent for analysis to begin to study why you are a little confused at the reception you are receiving here.
I believe that the theory can reduce to a series of mathematical equations that will yield a numerical quantitative answer to these kinds of questions. Like all science, we can fiddle with the structure of the equations gleefully, but already at a rough level it works for me. I used it this morning when a recruiter for a life insurance company called me. : )
mahesh2k:
Honestly, you don't need crappy windows. I used OSX and Linux and they don't show performance issues like windows. Not even windows 7 solved performance issue problem. More you use windows, less usable it becomes, after you add more data, reg entries and stuff.-mahesh2k (September 05, 2012, 04:58 AM)
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I personally haven't seen this since I moved away from Win9x. The registry is pretty efficient, definitely a lot more efficient than re-parsing text files all the time :) - the only problems I've seen have been caused by really badly written 3rd party software, and the cause hasn't been "too much data in the registry", it's been "really broken data" (which just coincidentally happened to be located in the registry).-f0dder (September 06, 2012, 06:54 AM)
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I did found problems, especially on Win XP and Vista. I had plenty of things broken e.g. TCP/IP reg fix that is available for both XP and vista when net crashes to reg corruption of the entries, I am sure you are aware of it. I can dig out few more reg edit fixes out there, in fact I had one bunch saved as file when I used XP Pro SP2 to use them after fresh installation. I don't have this on Windows 7 because those problems are pretty much solved on 7 but with windows XP SP 2 that problem is still possible to replicate. I don't know how you guys are saying that after Windows 9x, system is much stable in terms of reg performance because it's not for me.
Those who are using Visual studio knows Why I am saying this, because microsoft's own programs make the system unusable.I've been running every single version (not every edition, of course!) and service pack of Visual Studio from 6 to 2010 SP1, and will soon be installing 2012. I've even been using VS on Win9x. While the first VS.NET version was pretty crappy and unstable, I've never had VS affect my system stability, and never heard of stories like that from friends or co-workers.-mahesh2k (September 05, 2012, 04:58 AM)
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I used the Pro edition upto 2010 and after 2010 I used selective VS for web development. Prior to that almost every VS edition used to interfere with the ,NET framework which I updated and patched beyond default VS bundle. e.g. ,NET 3 and onwards. I had debugger closing my programs (this includes treedb, cintanotes and few other programs) bugging every single application and opening debugger for them. Never had this problem on your side? I wonder how you turned off debugger after VS installation to keep it from interfering with other applications and default .NET framework.
On the other hand, OSX based on unix is perfectly fine. Doesn't break or gets crashed with official softwares and upgrades.Most of the developers at my current job are on OSX laptops. A bunch of them started cursing some months ago after installing whatever-cat-named-update because their systems got bogged down (disk paging, beach ball icon, and sometime systems so unresponsive they had to hardboot them) - seems like Apple messed up the memory manager, majorly. Not something you'll see if you're just drinking caffè latte and not using your shiny laptop for facebook and hipstagram - but definitely if you're actually using the machine. And should I mention the funny instances where the battery expands somewhat (natural thing to do because of heat), messing up the touchpad? Or the various data-loss incidents there's been in Finder?Sure, there's some nice things about OSX, and the build quality on some macbooks is better than a lot of non-OSX PCs. But there's plenty of problems as well, and plenty of funny security holes as well :-)-mahesh2k (September 05, 2012, 04:58 AM)
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I don't know which part of my post people are picking up to imply "no security holes on osx". I am just comparing it with windows and on that comparison I had very few complaints on OS X in terms of patching (explained above) and the official updates, where you know how good windows performs.
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