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Microsoft OneNote - some experiential Tips & Tricks
dr_andus:
@kfitting - no worries, there is no problem with criticising any particular tool, that's what debate is for. I understand the advantages of the plain text method and I wish ConnectedText (CT) would save into individual plain text files e.g. onto Dropbox, so that the notes could be accessed from any device and across platforms.
In fact, just for that reason, I was recently considering WorkFlowy as a Zettelkasten platform, and I think it could work well (and it is a de facto plain text method, though it outputs into one single plain text file). But then I'd lose the analytical tools of CT (various automations, visualisations, and special queries), and its organising features (categories, properties, transclusions, outliners etc.), besides the image support, and I'm not ready to trade those in.
wraith808:
One thing I'd add to Dr Andus' comments, is that you do have to be careful to not confuse the tool with the task (which, I believe, is the main point of Christian's article). I was considering ConnectedText, until I started using a plaintext approach (due to the article).
Then I realized that my major problem was that I had no idea how to split my notes/thoughts. I could spend tons of money on a tool and still use it poorly. Now that I've gotten better at the mechanics involved, I'm going back and reviewing tools (including ConnectedText, I was not trying to criticize it above!) to see what they can add and how they make things easier for my requirements.
-kfitting (December 05, 2015, 11:59 AM)
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This is a very salient lesson for many things that we seek to solve with software. Process first, then you can more adequately find the right software for the job, IMO.
IainB:
While Zettelkasten should probably be its own thread, I would invite you to look here http://zettelkasten.de/posts/how-to-program-yourself-productivity/ for a discussion about why you dont need fancy programs to do Zettelkasten... it has greatly influenced my own thoughts on the subject. Another good resource is http://takingnotenow.blogspot.com/.
-kfitting (December 05, 2015, 05:50 AM)
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I don't see a case as to why "Zettelkasten should probably be its own thread" - at least not on the DC forum. It would be an absolute yawn, since, in terms of a being a PIM, it is an archaic tool, and I would not have been interested in it per se.
However, seven years ago, the implemented concept of a numerical linking/indexing system for a card index (despite some obvious limitations) was very interesting to me, because this is what a database can be organised to do, and in fact was already being done, for example, in Wiki tools (using hyperlinking).
There are a lot of good website links about Zettelkasten, and I for one wouldn't want to add to them, but a lot of the discussion seems to take a purist approach and treat a Zettelkasten as some sort of key subject area for just text information. As I pointed out in the OP, in 2007 my information already included a lot more than just text. I had been very frustrated in my search for a PIM that could cope with it all.
I really had not liked MS OneNote at all in 2007. I already understood that OneNote was able to cope with the diverse information (data types) that I classed amongst my information needs, but it's information organisation was bit of a mystery. It was only when I belatedly saw that it included an option for Wki-like linking that the penny dropped and I realised that it might have the potential to be a Zettelkasten PIM (i.e., able to use an extension of the Zettelkasten numeric key indexing system, to include alphameric keys). So that is when I started my experiment.
I had previously spent a good deal of time examining Wiki tools to this end, but had given up as they could not handle all my data requirements.
Luhmann was arguably ahead of his time, with computer technology catching up later on to enable the concept for implementation in more widely useful form on computers in today's more diverse information age, as relatively generic computer software.
wraith808:
I don't see a case as to why "Zettelkasten should probably be its own thread" - at least not on the DC forum. It would be an absolute yawn, since, in terms of a being a PIM, it is an archaic tool, and I would not have been interested in it per se.
-IainB (December 05, 2015, 05:14 PM)
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I think he meant the process/platform, not the tool.
IainB:
I don't see a case as to why "Zettelkasten should probably be its own thread" - at least not on the DC forum. It would be an absolute yawn, since, in terms of a being a PIM, it is an archaic tool, and I would not have been interested in it per se.
-IainB (December 05, 2015, 05:14 PM)
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I think he meant the process/platform, not the tool.
-wraith808 (December 05, 2015, 05:37 PM)
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Eh? Well, thanks for translating for me, but, as a pragmatist and with my process re-engineering hat on, I have to say that there doesn't seem to be very much to the "process/platform" - that is, if you take the approach that the Zettelkasten is potentially implementable with alphameric keys as just a form of generic Wiki.
Would we actually gain in knowledge from discussing the Zettelkasten "process/platform" operation in the context of Wiki technology? I'd answer that with a "Probably not".
The Zettelkasten (card index) idea, though useful, can be effectively described - from our modern perspective - as being just a kind of Wiki-on-paper, you see, but using numeric indexes/links and with inherent shortcomings in terms of TOCs/indexes. That would seem like a bit of a yawn to me. The fountain pen was a pretty good idea too, but there again, would we actually gain in knowledge from discussing its operation in the context of touch-sensitive tablet pens? I'd answer that with a "Probably not".
If someone feels sufficiently strongly about it, or if they feel that the numerous other websites don't do the subject matter justice, then don't let any of that stop them from setting up a separate thread or website on Zettelkasten (or fountain pens). One can easily find and review Zettelkasten-related (or fountain pen-related) websites (see links above, for Zettelkasten examples, or just do a DuckGo search on "Zettelkasten").
This discussion thread is about "Microsoft OneNote - some experiential Tips & Tricks", and I was sharing the tip that, if one wanted a Zettelkasten PIM (as I did) - and one that can handle a diverse set of data types and information as per my possibly somewhat demanding requirements - then MS OneNote can be used to do that (QED). Furthermore, it would seem that OneNote (so far) is the only feasible candidate that I have come across whilst proving the above concept in my 8-year experiment. I mean, I've tried (and have kept retrying) all sorts of old and new tools as potential alternatives, over the 8 years, but they just don't pass muster on those requirements - and it's a bit of a travesty that they don't, in my view.
By the way:
As for OneNote, I still haven't seen an example or explanation of how it handles thousands or tens of thousands of notes, and in the absence of that I have a hard time seeing how it would work as a Zettelkasten in the long run.
-dr_andus (December 05, 2015, 08:36 AM)
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Well, judging from my own humble experience, one has had at least 8 years to build one's own example, and also to go look at some other examples, but on the other hand I suppose one shouldn't rush into these things too hastily.
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