Main Area and Open Discussion > Living Room
DOTCOM saga - updates
IainB:
Sort-of off-topic comment:
I'm not sure why a country of 4.5 million people thinks it needs a spy agency at all. Maybe I'm naive, maybe all countries do this, even the small ones. Must surely be a bit of a black hole for spending though...
-tomos (March 18, 2013, 10:36 AM)
--- End quote ---
A big question with a big answer! You will probably be able to understand this:
* from a quick review of the history of WW2 and the role of the Allied Forces (and including NZ) in that war;
* from a study of the role of NZ in acting as an ally and aid provider for small independent Pacific island nations, with some of whom NZ shares a special constitutional relationship as a member of the Commonwealth and whose citizens have an atomatic right to NZ citizenship if they wish to come and live/work in NZ;
* from (especially) following up on the links in this comment:
...That post also refers to ECHELON - which is referred to in the Wikipedia article I mentioned in the thread, above - New Zealand–United States relations.
Wikipedia has a fuller note on it here - ECHELON...
-IainB (March 09, 2013, 07:52 PM)
--- End quote ---
In global politics it is presumably always good to know who your dependable allies are in uncertain times. For example, NZ has always regarded the US as being that kind of ally, and presumably vice versa, though the same cannot be said (say) for France, which evidently sees nothing wrong in committing terrorist acts against those who helped to rescue it twice from German occupation.
IainB:
There is a report by TVNZ 3 News about some "documents" they have that put the police/SS in a bad light - particularly GCSB - in the Dotcom saga. However, after the fiasco we have witnessed, I am skeptical of whether this is anything more than a deliberate newsfeed from government sources intent on crucifying the now-retired head of GCSB (Hugh Wolfensohn, former deputy director of the GCSB) and deflecting blame away from others. It may transpire that Wolfensohn was thrown under a bus. (How would we know?)
The report is copied below, sans embedded hyperlinks/images.
SpoilerNew Dotcom papers reveal GCSB 'relaxed'
The documents show just how early the police officer in charge should have known Dotcom was a resident
By Patrick Gower
Political Editor
3 News has new details of the Kim Dotcom illegal spying scandal, with documents showing for the first time what spies from the Government Communications Security Bureau (GCSB) and police were saying behind the scenes.
Hugh Wolfensohn was once a spymaster – the chief legal adviser during the GCSB's botch-job of illegal spying on Dotcom. And for that Mr Wolfensohn has paid the price; he's gone, resigned after a 25-year career – the first real scalp of the scandal.
The question is: did he get a golden handshake on the way out? The spies aren't saying, and neither is their political master.
"You'll have to take that up with him," says Prime Minister John Key.
Documents, obtained by Labour, show for the first time the bungling by Mr Wolfensohn, his fellow spies and the police.
They had a codename for Dotcom: "Billy Big Steps". They certainly started off happy, slapping "BUSTED!" over 3 News footage in a slideshow debrief following the raid in January last year.
"This was a colossal cock-up inside the police and the GCSB," says Labour deputy leader Grant Robertson. "That's the agency that John Key's meant to be overseeing."
"Obviously I've been concerned," says Mr Key.
--- End quote ---
The documents show just how early the police officer in charge, Detective Inspector Grant Wormald, should have known Dotcom was a New Zealand resident and the spying may have been illegal.
On the same day the spying started, police were given information showing Dotcom was a resident. Soon after police had the entire Dotcom immigration file, before the spying ended and the raid.
In February, the GCSB knew spying could be illegal but it took seven months until it was revealed to Dotcom, the Prime Minister and the public. So in February there was a crisis, with Mr Wolfensohn the GCSB's top legal mind.
A GCSB operative describes an unnamed senior officer as "pretty relaxed" about it all. That's because the GCSB came up with a wrong interpretation of its own law, the operative saying "people here have been very relaxed about it all".
"The GCSB legal team was relaxed," says Mr Robertson. "They seem to have caught John Key being relaxed. That's not really good enough."
"In hindsight of course that decision was wrong and that decision is subject to a major inquiry we now have underway," says Mr Key.
--- End quote ---
The police had been worried about looking like "a bunch of clowns walking roughshod over the law". They took the GCSB at its word, replying "we can go back to celebrating taking down that criminal mastermind", the spies finally saying "so all done and dusted, bring on the next case".
The clean-up job is far from done, and there are likely more changes within the GCSB to follow.
--- End quote ---
Still no word yet on what is being done re the apparent perjury by police.
Enquiring minds need to know.
Renegade:
Still no word yet on what is being done re the apparent perjury by police.
-IainB (March 20, 2013, 08:33 AM)
--- End quote ---
Laws are for us. Not for police, banks, the rich, or big corps. It's for our own good so that the terrorists and bad economy don't get us. :P
40hz:
Still no word yet on what is being done re the apparent perjury by police.
-IainB (March 20, 2013, 08:33 AM)
--- End quote ---
It all depends on how high up the food chain the shared culpability goes. The higher the level of power implicated, the greater the incentive to "let bygones be bygones." At least from my experience with government wrongdoings.
In the end I'm guessing there will be little more than some very public hand-wringing and fervent apologies - possibly even coupled with a few additional resignations and/or firings of low to mid-level scapegoats (who were nearing retirement anyway) - followed by a spate of new directives and departmental policies that will apply to all future police actions. This will guarantee the NZ public that such an outrage will never happen again.
I had a fair degree of confidence that judicial and legal sanity would ultimately prevail in NZ. Then I saw this bit of news and started to worry all over again.
BTW - I sincerely hope I'm wrong about the above...but I somehow doubt I will be. :(
IainB:
Another day, another story: Now it is reported that the same (or more) "documents" were in fact "court documents" obtained by 3 News and/or the Labour party. Quite how/why they were made public first in this way via a news outlet as opposed to being made public directly by formal government announcement/report is a bit of a mystery.
The picture now seems to be that Wolfensohn made the judgement that the spying was legal, when he apparently was in a position to know that in fact it would have been illegal, and then he apparently tried to belatedly cover it up by getting the Deputy PM to sign it into secrecy.
Amazing. I find it hard to believe. On the face of it, this would seem to be an incredibly stupid and unethical series of actions - serial execution errors - for someone in Wolfensohn's position, and with his legal training, to do. Akin to professional suicide. Apparently he was put on "gardening leave" on February 27, 2012 - which usually means leave on full pay. It is unclear as to whether he is still employed in this capacity by GCSB.
Furthermore, they all - i.e., the police and GCSB - apparently knew it was illegal - per a Labour party spokesman.
(NZ Herald news report copied below sans embedded hyperlinks/images.)
SpoilerSpymaster in Dotcom suppression
By David Fisher
5:30 AM Thursday Mar 21, 2013
The spymaster who initially cleared the Government Communications Security Bureau (GCSB) of illegally snooping on Kim Dotcom was also directly involved in seeking the suppression order signed by Bill English as Acting Prime Minister.
The Herald has learned former chief legal adviser Hugh Wolfensohn was involved in arranging the once-in-a-decade certificate which sought to bury the scandal.
The Prime Minister confirmed yesterday for the first time it was Mr Wolfensohn's advice that quelled GCSB and police fears they had illegally spied on Mr Dotcom and his co-accused Bram van der Kolk.
He told Parliament: "The best of the legal advice presented by Hugh Wolfensohn was that it was legal. As we now know, GCSB and Mr Wolfensohn were wrong."
Mr Wolfensohn no longer works at the bureau after being placed on "gardening leave". A spokesman for the GCSB said of Mr Wolfensohn's advice: "With hindsight, we know it wasn't right."
When GCSB's involvement began to emerge in August, the bureau tried to suppress its existence with a ministerial certificate. It needed the signature of the Prime Minister - and with Mr Key out of the country, it was signed by Mr English.
The Herald has confirmed Mr Wolfensohn was involved in arranging the certificate.
Mr Wolfensohn was a 25-year veteran of the bureau with key senior roles including as acting director during the illegal spying.
A month after the spying operation ended with the raid and arrests, concerns emerged the bureau had broken a law prohibiting spying on New Zealand residents. Mr Dotcom and Mr van der Kolk were residents at the time.
Mr Wolfensohn ruled the spying legal on February 27 last year.
Details of the GCSB's involvement have emerged in hundreds of pages of documents relating to the illegal spying obtained from court files by the Labour Party.
Included was a list showing the bureau received eight separate lots of legal advice in eight days before Mr Wolfensohn's eventual verdict the law was not broken.
Mr Robertson said the concerns, then advice dismissing fears and then the suppression certificate "had all the hallmarks of a cover-up".
"I find it inexplicable that having worked out it was unlawful that was changed by Wolfensohn. They all knew - and then worked themselves out of it."
--- End quote ---
Still no word yet on what is being done re the apparent perjury by police.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version