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Is Linux just a hobby?
barney:
He-he :). Linux is fun when I have time to play with it, but serious work has to be done in Windows. Mind you, that's me, not necessarily the world. My biggest Linux issue is documentation - no, man pages don't cut it :(. Most of 'em seem to be written for folk who already know ninety percent of the answer :D. Seems there's a severe lack of technical writers in the open source community ;).
Well, there is one (1) other issue, that being the command line - but, then, I have that same issue in Windows. The issue is not typing commands, but remembering the commands to type. Had the same issue with OS/2. When /d has a different meaning for every command you use, you soon run out of organic RAM to store all the variances :P.
On the other hand, my local server is running a very old version of Red Hat - very old :o! - and works just fine. I don't have to mess with it.
As I said, it's fun to work with Linux distros, but the two (2) biggest failings throughout the various distros, to my thinking, is the lack of drivers - which is curable only by mainstream adoption - and a serious lack of, or inadequate, documentation. And as long as I restrict myself to distros that support available drivers for my hardware, Linux works just fine. No speed penalties, as long as I learn the rules and play by them.
That said, I have Puppy on a USB stick for those times when I have to go into recovery mode :P :P. In that case, it just works :Thmbsup:.
Oh, on the subject of documentation, Jack Wallen has a fairly interesting article on crowdsourced documentation for Fedora. Might be worth a read for Linux and non-Linux users alike.
Deozaan:
It's not really fair to use a certain operating system your whole life (Windows) and then try out a different one that functions on different paradigms (Debian/Ubuntu) for a few hours and then say this new one is stupid/useless/whatever simply because you can't figure it out.
What you are experiencing is probably what your mom/grandma feels like any time she uses her computer! Spend time with it. Learn how to do the things you want to do with it, in the way it is done on that OS. Then, once it's not your personal knowledge/skill with the OS that is holding you back, but actually the OS itself, you can make a more qualified judgement on whether or not the OS is stupid/useless/whatever.
I recently read a "blog entry" by an Apple user who tried out Windows 7 and thought it was the most useless OS ever, simply because he couldn't figure things out, and his go-to Windows expert apparently wasn't expert enough to know about setting Environment Variables. It's really painful to read knowing that the guy is condemning the entire OS based on some very fundamental, beginner's mistakes. And he's a pretty smart guy. He just has been using a different paradigm (Apple OSes) for years and years and years and doesn't know how to do things the Microsoft way.
If you're interested, you can read it here: My Adventures with Windows 7.
TaoPhoenix:
He-he :). Linux is fun when I have time to play with it, but serious work has to be done in Windows. Mind you, that's me, not necessarily the world. My biggest Linux issue is documentation - no, man pages don't cut it :(. Most of 'em seem to be written for folk who already know ninety percent of the answer :D. Seems there's a severe lack of technical writers in the open source community ;).
Well, there is one (1) other issue, that being the command line - but, then, I have that same issue in Windows. The issue is not typing commands, but remembering the commands to type. Had the same issue with OS/2. When /d has a different meaning for every command you use, you soon run out of organic RAM to store all the variances :P.
On the other hand, my local server is running a very old version of Red Hat - very old :o! - and works just fine. I don't have to mess with it.
As I said, it's fun to work with Linux distros, but the two (2) biggest failings throughout the various distros, to my thinking, is the lack of drivers - which is curable only by mainstream adoption - and a serious lack of, or inadequate, documentation. And as long as I restrict myself to distros that support available drivers for my hardware, Linux works just fine. No speed penalties, as long as I learn the rules and play by them.
That said, I have Puppy on a USB stick for those times when I have to go into recovery mode :P :P. In that case, it just works :Thmbsup:.
Oh, on the subject of documentation, Jack Wallen has a fairly interesting article on crowdsourced documentation for Fedora. Might be worth a read for Linux and non-Linux users alike.
-barney (May 21, 2012, 04:26 PM)
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Hi Barney, I'd like to respond to your post because I believe I have some answers to move the discussion along.
1. Drivers. Debian culture at least (unknown about the other distros) has an extra complexity related to the fact that raw Debian is not supposed to have any proprietary stuff in it, cheating with which is why MS is "why you can only get work done in Windows". So unfortunately, because businesses do what businesses do, including Soap Box territory, drivers are often only "proprietary blobs".
So while I respect the concept of pure Debian, in practice the Linux discussion is about new users wanting to use Linux. New users need help. Needing help usually requires proprietary blobs. Now, uBuntu got where it is, because it is mostly just a "Newbie candycoating" of raw Debian. But even uBuntu isn't perfect (some would say grumpily far from it!) So then you get to a theme I cooked up, borrowing from the Marines, "There Are Many Linux Distros, But This One Is Mine".
So if you, one Barney the New Linux User, needs a distro with drivers... then ... look for a distro with drivers! Forget the "Brand Name of Ubuntu", you need ... drivers. On my particular test box for Linux, Ubuntu made some random decision across all branches that hosed my box after whatever month, something like Oct 2010. But I want my Linux! So, follow the humor: Ubuntu is a Sub-Distro of Debian, but it nuked my particular comp, so I went looking for a Sub-Sub-Debian distro! And I found one - forgive me for copping laziness but check that other thread for the exact name of the distro. Point is, Drivers. Problem 1 solved for me. You just need *your* distro. It doesn't matter if it doesn't work for me.
2. Documentation
"Is that all that's stopping you?" I'd say that's one of the EASIEST hurdles to solve! Put a bit over-simplified, "what do you need documented, and give me three days." I'd say the HARD issues are what to do about Windows only versions of programs that don't behave in Wine, etc etc. Documentation? Bleh! Cake!
And as for remembering commands for the command line? Two answers there. 1, just make a list of commands! A 5 page list should have about everything you need, and if it doesn't, make the font smaller! : ) Now, if the STYLE of the command line annoys you, and I am maybe 5 years too late to be a command line junkie, then look for an App version that puts it in a GUI shell.
And if it doesn't exist? Wait for it, this is where I'll get rained on with oranges... *commission* it! Chances are what is failing you is not some monster Enterprise accounting package, but some low level "dumb" feature that (maybe) only exists in the command line. So, rather than wringing your hands in despair, spend some $80, get a coder to write it for you in 7 hours. That's my killer-app lesson from this year. And it's not just Linux, it's ANY platform. You need X widget, it doesn't exist, don't just stand around for a year hoping someone will make it. Just commission it! This is a US site, most of us have a job, so spend $80 for an app that makes or breaks you! (Heh the one I am doing is falling into my delusions of feature creep so it's getting a little more expensive, but same idea!)
Whew!
Your fighting TWO multi-billion dollar corporations who are trying their various ways of discouraging you from using a Free (!!) operating system, so you have to come at this from a fighter's perspective.
Yours,
--Tao
TaoPhoenix:
I'm solid enough on Windows and I don't know what an Environment Variable is either! So there is something to be said about Discoverability.
However, I believe there is a meta-meme here. You have Windows because Everybody Uses Windows, then once you get into Not-Windows, you need a REASON to go Not-Windows. Then once you have a reason to go Not-Windows, you get into the fight of Mac vs Linux. So you need very clear reasons to go Not-Mac and end up on Linux.
Then once you are positive you want Not-Windows Not-Mac, then Linux is a good place to start, then you play with distros and sub-distros until you are happy.
Renegade:
I'm solid enough on Windows and I don't know what an Environment Variable is either! So there is something to be said about Discoverability.
However, I believe there is a meta-meme here. You have Windows because Everybody Uses Windows, then once you get into Not-Windows, you need a REASON to go Not-Windows. Then once you have a reason to go Not-Windows, you get into the fight of Mac vs Linux. So you need very clear reasons to go Not-Mac and end up on Linux.
Then once you are positive you want Not-Windows Not-Mac, then Linux is a good place to start, then you play with distros and sub-distros until you are happy.
-TaoPhoenix (May 21, 2012, 06:51 PM)
--- End quote ---
Just a personal opinion, but I think Richard Stallman puts forward all the best arguments to use GNU Linux, if you are looking for a reason.
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