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SOPA Shelved - ACTA is Worse
IainB:
@tranglos: Sorry if I wrote confusingly.
But when a group of people band together as a corporation and do the same, we call them the most productive members of the society and bestow all kinds of accolades on them, and indeed let them effectively run our countries - yours and mine both. End digression.)
-tranglos (January 25, 2012, 07:40 AM)
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Yes - this is QED:
SpoilerIn the film The Corporation, they reviewed the personality disorder "psychopathy". (A psychopath is a person with chronic psychopathy, esp. leading to abnormally irresponsible and antisocial behaviour.)
They gave this checklist of criteria to identify the disorder:
1. Callous unconcern for the feelings of others.
2. Incapacity to maintain enduring relationships.
3. Reckless disregard for the safety of others.
4. Deceitfulness: repeated lying and conning others for profit/financial gain.
5. Incapacity to experience guilt.
6. Failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviours.
In the film, these criteria were shown to be met by many/most of the legal entities (legal persons) known as "corporations", thus demonstrating that society has legalised these special kinds of psychopaths to operate in society, where they can and do cause tremendous harm - e.g., including such things as economic dependency and control of communities, or a deadly (toxic) environmental footprint - sometimes both, as in the case of the US corporation Exide in their factory in Mexico.
These Frankenstinian monsters were created within the protective environment afforded by a mix of religio-political ideologies - e.g., including the US Constitution, Christianity, Democracy, Capitalism, and English/American Law.
I am not knocking or commenting on those ideologies per se.
In the case of the US, history indicates that they seem to be - so far - the only ideologies that humans have been able to use in concert to consistently create wealth, better living conditons and freedoms for the majority, as a matter of course.
And then you have a small party, whose ideology is to stop them from doing all that. Yet they are both cockroaches to you, how?
Or how you could say entities like the Communist Party are more "successful" than the big business - that's equally puzzling. How do you measure success to arrive at this outcome?
-tranglos (January 25, 2012, 07:40 AM)
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I am not knocking the Communist ideology per se, nor the Communist Party USA per se. I used the latter as an example of small cockroaches. They get everywhere - as can be seen from the details in the spoiler. Just doing what their religio-political ideology tells them to do. It seems that, wherever there is a disaffected minority, religion or activist organisation, there too (apparently) is your friendly neighbourhood Communist to assist you in whatever you are trying to do to change society. Because it's only by destroying the hated wealth-creating society that the Communist model can be put in place. So, help and make use of people with a common cause, or at least a partly common cause.
I said that the small cockroaches were:
...arguably more successful than the larger ones.
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- because it is arguable - e.g., on the basis that they are smaller, likely to be more numerous and more ubiquitous.
The term "cockroaches" was coined by @Renegade. I picked it up and later used the analogy where I said:
Unfortunately, if you want to do something about cockroaches, then your only option seems to be to exterminate them.
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Thus, whether - for example - Capitalists or Communists or Scientologists, if they are freedom-destroying cockroaches, then you are going to have to exterminate them. But there the analogy fails, because they're not cockroaches are they? They are people.
Bugger. They are part of you - not an enemy that you can dehumanise and barbarically kill without compunction. This is the soft spot that makes us human/civilised. That means you can't legally kill them willy-nilly after all.
The only legal way to fight them is to build a defence using the same Civil tools that they are using to gnaw away at and destroy Freedom. The risk is that they might not have the same "soft spot" about you.
As Renegade said:
The attack on free speech has many fronts. There's a full out Von Clausewitz total war of Biblical proportion on free speech now.
They're not going to stop until they are stopped.
-Renegade (January 24, 2012, 09:15 AM)
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It's the religio-political ideology that you need to do something about, see? It's not the people using that ideology.
And they have arguably been planning/doing whatever systemic mischief they intend for quite some time, and are thus likely to be a lot better organised than their targets.
I would be interested to know just how you are likely to be able to "stop" them with certainty, and defend the Constitution, without breaching some of the prevailing American religio-political ideologies.
Don't forget how easily America permitted McCarthyism.
Somewhere down that logical path you could find civil war.
Renegade:
As Renegade said:
The attack on free speech has many fronts. There's a full out Von Clausewitz total war of Biblical proportion on free speech now.
They're not going to stop until they are stopped.
-Renegade (January 24, 2012, 09:15 AM)
--- End quote ---
It's the religio-political ideology that you need to do something about, see? It's not the people using that ideology.
And they have arguably been planning/doing whatever systemic mischief they intend for quite some time, and are thus likely to be a lot better organised than their targets.
I would be interested to know just how you are likely to be able "stop" them without breaching some of the prevailing American religio-political ideologies. Somewhere down that logical path you could find civil war.
-IainB (January 26, 2012, 01:39 AM)
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No disagreement there.
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.
-John F. Kennedy
--- End quote ---
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
-Thomas Jefferson
--- End quote ---
Unless something happens very quickly, that's where it is going... or perhaps down that very dark path that none of us want to think about. Few sane people want to be a character in a real life 1984.
tomos:
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
-Thomas Jefferson
--- End quote ---
-Renegade (January 26, 2012, 01:55 AM)
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just curious:
does he mean that (we) the patriots should fight the tyrants - or does he mean we gotta kill/bleed the patriots as well as the tyrants?
The latter seems quite apt in these "patriotic" days - but I suspect he meant the former. I know - he possibly had a cleaner version of patriotism in mind.
As someone who doesnt believe that that route brings anything worthwhile, I'd disagree with both anyway :p but as you say it could be where it's heading, more likely the "dark path" though I think :-\
Renegade:
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
-Thomas Jefferson
--- End quote ---
-Renegade (January 26, 2012, 01:55 AM)
--- End quote ---
just curious:
does he mean that (we) the patriots should fight the tyrants - or does he mean we gotta kill/bleed the patriots as well as the tyrants?
The latter seems quite apt in these "patriotic" days - but I suspect he meant the former. I know - he possibly had a cleaner version of patriotism in mind.
As someone who doesnt believe that that route brings anything worthwhile, I'd disagree with both anyway :p but as you say it could be where it's heading, more likely the "dark path" though I think :-\
-tomos (January 26, 2012, 04:35 AM)
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He means that violent revolution is periodically inevitable, and there will be blood spilt on both sides.
Renegade:
PETITION TO STOP ACTA HERE:
http://www.avaaz.org/en/eu_save_the_internet_spread/?cfiUkcb
Please~!
(And thank you if you do/did!)
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