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Huh? Thailand can put an American in jail for posting internet content??
IainB:
The point I was making is that it is difficult for Americans to take the high moral ground against other countries when the US Government often seems to display little respect for law (international or otherwise) or human rights.
I could level the same argument against the UK government too...
-Carol Haynes (December 08, 2011, 05:54 PM)
--- End quote ---
Yes. I wish you were wrong, but sadly, this would seem to be an accurate couple of generalisations.
From a distance, I've tried to keep up with US and UK/European politics and cultural changes over the years.
The last time I went to the UK was in 2003, and I didn't like what I saw - but at least I was prepared for it.
I think this probably holds some truth as well:
We aren't so far from the Patriot Act oursleves - and I suspect Tony Blair was rather sorry to have not thought of it before George W.
-Carol Haynes (December 08, 2011, 05:54 PM)
--- End quote ---
Since at least the late '80s, successive UK governments seem to have been pushing to get the National ID card - or something similar accepted - and there has apparently been a huge increase in camera surveillance. Police stop and search for any arbitrary or specific reason now appears to be de rigueur. It's looking more and more like a Fascist police state.
See: Mark McGowan - This Is Not A Protest
There was another YouTube vid (I can't find it) of an American guy wandering round in the Barbican square with a sign that read "This is not a protest" (OWTTE) and using a loudhailer to talk to the people around him, and he had people filming it. He was an entertainer. The pseudo-police ("security officers") tried to stop the filming, tried to throw him out, but failed, and eventually the real police arrived and chucked him out. For causing no disturbance and for entertaining people. He was very funny and his main offence seemed to be that he made a complete laughing-stock of the pseudo and the real police.
I reckon that mocking Fascism - or any similar horror of a religio-political ideaology - is a healthy exercise of free speech.
Renegade:
I'm feeling an almost +1 for IainB's comments above...
What happened to this guy...
-IainB (December 08, 2011, 03:29 PM)
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But I just can't...
I just cannot get past that what one does in one country is done in that country, and for another country to prosecute you for that is overstepping its jurisdiction.
Now, if you're *IN* Thailand and say something against the King or Queen, well, that's a different matter.
I think laws need to be taken in a cultural context (with some sanity injection of course), and that what works in one place may not work in another.
From what I have seen, the limit of freedom to speak out against the monarchy in Thailand isn't really that bad of a thing. From what I've seen and understand, the monarchy in Thailand works, and that protection for it seems to work.
But I'm no expert on the topic, and I could be totally off-base or misinformed. I simply don't know.
So, as I do plan on getting back to Thailand at some point, LONG LIVE THE KING~! ;D
IainB:
I'm feeling an almost +1 for IainB's comments above...
What happened to this guy...
-IainB (December 08, 2011, 03:29 PM)
--- End quote ---
But I just can't...
...
So, as I do plan on getting back to Thailand at some point, LONG LIVE THE KING~! ;D
-Renegade (December 08, 2011, 09:17 PM)
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Yes, I quite understand.
I'm hoping to be able return to Thailand at some point too, so...
LONG LIVE THE KING!
--- End quote ---
I think if the UK had a similar lèse majesté law, then it would have been a good thing. Then we would not have had to have been subjected to all those awful Daily Mirror and News of the World and other media reports and exposés of the royal family's goings-on over the last umpteen years - including extra-marital affairs, bonking, toe-sucking, drunkenness, mistresses and lovers, divorces, bulimia, blatant and unethical deception for financial gain trading on the royal name, profiteering, financial profligacy and squandering, misguided proselytising, tree-hugging and general daftness, all performed ultimately at the State's cost.
I would most definitely exclude the Queen and the Duke from that list - she is simply superb at what she does and is a truly beautiful person, and he is magnificently forthright and honest. It's their family that seems to be mostly a waste of space.
Small wonder the Queen looks so much older than her 45 years.
Renegade:
I'm feeling an almost +1 for IainB's comments above...
What happened to this guy...
-IainB (December 08, 2011, 03:29 PM)
--- End quote ---
But I just can't...
...
So, as I do plan on getting back to Thailand at some point, LONG LIVE THE KING~! ;D
-Renegade (December 08, 2011, 09:17 PM)
--- End quote ---
Yes, I quite understand.
I'm hoping to be able return to Thailand at some point too, so...
LONG LIVE THE KING!
--- End quote ---
I think if the UK had a similar lèse majesté law, then it would have been a good thing. Then we would not have had to have been subjected to all those awful Daily Mirror and News of the World and other media reports and exposés of the royal family's goings-on over the last umpteen years - including extra-marital affairs, bonking, toe-sucking, drunkenness, mistresses and lovers, divorces, bulimia, blatant and unethical deception for financial gain trading on the royal name, profiteering, financial profligacy and squandering, misguided proselytising, tree-hugging and general daftness, all performed ultimately at the State's cost.
I would most definitely exclude the Queen and the Duke from that list - she is simply superb at what she does and is a truly beautiful person, and he is magnificently forthright and honest. It's their family that seems to be mostly a waste of space.
Small wonder the Queen looks so much older than her 45 years.
-IainB (December 08, 2011, 11:26 PM)
--- End quote ---
Now THAT is a +1 for sure~! :D
I utterly abhor celebrity gossip and all the trash that goes along with it.
Like seriously, who cares?
It's one thing to have a side-note something along the lines of, oh, say, Rob Halford just came out of the closet, or Steve Balmer had a car accident and broke his leg, or Joe Spolsky got engaged, or Kerry King came down with the flu and the concert got canceled... But the way it's all dragged out... god... Do I really need to hear about every move these people make? Can't we just leave them alone?
As for the Queen and Duke - I really don't know. She really doesn't make many public addresses that get broadcast, and as far as I can see, there's not much going on there. But like I said, I just don't know. I don't follow gossip or news about the Queen. My questions would be about what she does as queen, which again, I just don't know. But then again, I suppose that says a good thing about her or rather a good thing about her lack of bad behaviour~! :D It's too bad that news doesn't report positive and uplifting things. Sigh...
Which reminds me... I believe that Tool summed this all up very nicely and very accurately in Vicarious:
It's a horrific statement on just how sick we as a society are, in that we need to see death and misery.
Carol Haynes:
But I just can't...
I just cannot get past that what one does in one country is done in that country, and for another country to prosecute you for that is overstepping its jurisdiction.
-Renegade (December 08, 2011, 09:17 PM)
--- End quote ---
OK here is an extreme, and deliberately silly, for instance a UK citizen writes extensively about the need for uprising, rebellion and civil war in the US. Their writing is particularly effective at increasing tensions in the US and riots break out. The author being very pleased with themselves visits the US to view their handiwork - they don't actually get involved with any of the action but would the US government not be interested in their presence.
It wasn't that long ago that a UK representative at the UN was denied entry to the US simply because he was muslim - they let his white wife and children through before he realised what was going on.
Don't forget the US go one further - they go into other countries and snatch people that they consider a threat to US security, imprison them indefinitely without due process or access to lawyers.
You can't really expect other countries to give US citizens special exemption from their laws - no one is denying freedom to write or discuss opinions of a Royal family in the US but if you visit that country afterwards that was also his choice. Even in the US freedom of speech often has consequences!
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