Main Area and Open Discussion > General Software Discussion
Complaint about Bartels Media \ the PhraseExpress people
JavaJones:
Is it really completely acceptable for you guys, that any anonymous troll can walk in, make any reputation-harming claim he wants and walk away without criticism?
And do you really find it acceptable to bash the victim when he makes a statement and provide evidence against the false claim?
-BartelsMedia (April 20, 2011, 01:33 PM)
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I hope that my posting in this thread does not make it go further downhill. First, let me say that I too work for a small software publisher, so I can directly identify with the position Michael and PhraseExpress are in. That being said we have a largely positive community and relatively little adversarial comment online. I tend to feel this is partly because we intentionally do *not* pursue and attempt response to every single mention of our product, particularly in cases where it is being referenced by a user of competing software. The PhraseExpress approach seems the polar opposite to that, but we've found that the best way to potentially convert someone using other software is to give them a free copy. Beyond that it's not likely that any amount of argumentation will convince people otherwise, especially when discussing a commercial product vs. free ones. So I would argue that the PhraseExpress Public Relations approach is potentially at the root of some negative response, which is important for you to consider.
Now, I can't speak for anyone else, but my first reaction upon seeing ggamer's original post in this thread was somewhat dubious, slightly negative. While I recognized some of the concerns mentioned as issues I have also noted (such as the much discussed aggressive response to any and all PhraseExpress discussions), there were also a number of dubious or inflated criticisms that seemed to detract from and devalue the post as a whole, so that I largely dismissed it. Had another DC member responded first, I suspect it might have been something along the lines "You're right, there are some issues, but some of your criticisms are pretty silly or even rude". But that's not what happened.
There were 3 ways it could have gone, as I see it:
It may have just gone unanswered. While I recognize the likely contention by PhraseExpress that this would be a negative result for them, in fact I would argue that this means nobody really cares about the post and opinion of the poster, which is generally a good result. Yes, their opinion "stands" unchallenged, and that is difficult to accept without responding, but I do tend to think this is for the best. Responding allows you to potentially address the issues raised, but it also raises the profile of the original poster's comments, which might otherwise just fade into obscurity.
Another DC member might have responded to it, which I think could have either taken the form of what I mentioned above - some acknowledgement of the points made but also concern about the total critique - or may have been more in agreement. Tt may also have been something else, of course, but I think these possibilities are most likely. It's hard to say for sure. But regardless I feel that after one or more additional posts was made would be a better time to address the discussion, not before. This allows you to see what direction the conversation will take, if any, and respond to the general sentiment rather than one particular poster. After all you might have found more support than you ended up getting in this thread had people been more focused on the content of the original message (which I've already mentioned was problematic in my view) rather than your subsequent response. I will agree that it would be nice for everyone to address both at least, while the focus does seem to be on your response rather than the originator, but I think that just speaks to the issues I'm trying to bring to your attention in how (and when) you participate in these conversations.
Finally, what did happen is that you responded first which I believe created an adversarial tone from the beginning. There are multiple factors at work here, one being the perception by many here (myself included) that your language and tone are "aggressive". This may well be due to non-native language issues, I can't say. But I can definitely say that this impression is shared by several people in this and other threads where you've participated. I think, as the representative of a business, it is in your best interest to determine why this is and change it. That's your best bet at improving your public and customer relations.
- Oshyan
40hz:
So for the best, I'm marking this thread to ignore, trying to follow Chris' example in the future.-wraith808 (April 20, 2011, 01:21 PM)
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Wraith, I would love if this long-going wish would ever come true.
Now, here is the deal:
Refrain from any BartelsMedia related thread at DC for one year and I will donate PE licenses worth US $1,400.- to fellow DC forum members (with more than 1000 postings). Mouser can run a nice "Happy Easter 2012" promotion with those licenses.
The deal starts from now on. No confirmation required.
-BartelsMedia (April 20, 2011, 02:24 PM)
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Boy does that offer ever fit in with the culture and character of DonationCoder.
bmms:
it is in your best interest to determine why this is and change it.
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In this regard it would be interesting for me to learn what you guys actually consider "aggressive" in my first reply?
I am fully aware that I have not used corporate ("Your feedback is very important to us") bullshit nomenclatura but that just wouldn't fit to a troll anyway, would it?
johnk:
I wasn't sure whether to post, as I don't want it to seem as if DC members are "ganging up" against Michael, but as someone who just bought two PE licences and likes the product, I might as well say my bit.
Michael, I bought my two licences despite your posts in this forum. I was almost going to reject your product simply because of your very unfortunate manner in these forums. Your tone is consistently combative and unpleasant.
A number of level-headed members who have been here a long time have told you the same thing. I think you should just accept that. I think the best thing you can do for your product is stop posting, and allow those of us who use your product to answer queries or say why we like it (as I have done in other threads). Or get other members of your team to post here.
Your are doing your company no favours by your contributions here.
ggamer:
Do you really believe, that I am that schizophrenic to even mail between "my own" accounts?-BartelsMedia (April 20, 2011, 03:58 AM)
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Why not? That would take 5 seconds to accomplish and it would allow you to use it as "proof" if someone were to call you out like I did, like you are now.
This must not be. Boy, we patented it!
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I visit a lot of forums and I haven't come across anyone who uses bolding and italics as much and, with all due respect, as awkwardly as you do. Much less three users on the same forum who all share so many other things in common [see my list above in my OP], namely a seemingly extremely vested interested in PhraseExpress while at the same time having disdain for any other product.
I apologize in the name of hundreds of Indian, Italian and French forum participators for the lack of our English skills as it is not our native language. Perhaps you can help us to improve our English if you wish to contribute something actually useful.
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No need to apologize for your lack of English skills, I'll give credit where credit is due and commend you for being able to speak English so well for it not being your native language (I hear it's one of the toughest to learn), and for being able to speak\read\write in at least two languages. I am only able to speak one language myself.
Again tho, in and of itself that is not the issue. It's just one more thing out of many things in common (and very few things you don't have in common) with those other users I mentioned.
Now, as you seem to be an established DC member, would you please tell us the reason why you don't post with your real DC account but use a dummy account for that?
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Reread the first paragraph of my OP, please.
And as you seem to be very alert about our product for whatever interesting reason and as you obviously invested so much time in your very elaborated research, please tell us about your motivation (as in "Qui Bono?") why you try to hurt us in such sophisticated way?
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It's hard not to be "alert" with you and the other users I mentioned constantly promoting your software and trashing others in an aggressive, irritating, off-putting manner here. And from reading the posts from others in this thread and other threads before it in which you've participated, evidently I'm not the only one who's familiar with you and who has been turned off by you, and also I'm not the only one who suspects that Mattphoes and Merida and maybe others are controlled by you or your company (see here, here, here, and here for example)
Also I didn't invest "so much time" and "elaborate research" wasn't required either. All it took was for me to read the first couple of posts of Mattphoes in the thread I pointed to in my OP and immediately a bunch of red flags went up in my head and I saw the stark similarities. By the second post Mattphoes had already named three programs as being "way too buggy", "slow", and "limited", while just a day after asking for suggestions naming PhraseExpress as an "awesome" program that delivered "everything you could imagine".
After finishing the thread I had remembered another user here striking me in a similar way a year or so back and after a quick search I found the user again ("Merida"). After skimming over both users' posts there was no question they were all controlled by one entity: you\your company.
My motivation is simple; I don't like bullies. My intention is not to hurt you, it is to let you know that I'm on to your game and I want your bullying not to mention deceitful and abrasive behavior to stop. Once more, evidently I'm not the only one who feels this way either.
And do you really find it acceptable to bash the victim when he makes a statement and provide evidence against the false claim?
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You haven't provided any evidence.
What I wonder that some visitors here debate my tone in great extend while having any slightest problem with the tone/accusations of the original poster at all. Stunning!
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Maybe it's because many of them agree with me, Michael.
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