Main Area and Open Discussion > General Software Discussion
Ubuntu: Where Did the Love Go?
40hz:
I didn't see the innovation.
-MilesAhead (February 23, 2011, 02:18 AM)
--- End quote ---
I did.
I handed a copy of a Ubuntu 6.06 live CD to my GF Alexis who, though very bright (and not afraid of technology), is definitely not a "computer person" like most of us here are.
She got it installed with no help from me. And she used it regularly, with very little hand holding afterwards. And that included installing/upgrading software and sorting out the occasional "missing dependency" problem when not installing from a repository.
Wish I could say the same thing about her experiences with Windows 7 when it first came out. ;D
Which is why I have so much trouble understanding some of the pith and grumping on the part of some DCers who apparently are having all sorts of problems with Linux.
If my non-tech GF was able to effectively use it - and roll with the punches when the occasional problem cropped up - why in the name of Buddah do these same tech-savvy people seem to act as though they're completely brought to their knees by it?
It's a bit of a mystery and a disconnect for me. :huh:
re: Hype
There was some, but everything I saw was mainly the tech press trumpeting the demise of Microsoft Windows. Which was weird since Shutteworth went to great lengths to argue (in my mind very sensibly) that a peaceful coexistence with Windows was not only possible - but desirable as well.
With the crash & burn that was Vista, Linux had one golden opportunity to unseat Microsoft. But that was not going to happen through anything the Linux camp could do by itself. The only way it might (only might) have happened would have been if Microsoft totally screwed up on Windows 7.
And to it's credit, Microsoft acquitted itself rather well. Windows 7 is a very nice desktop OS. No argument from anybody (including most of the saner Linux crowd) on that score.
Of course, now that it's fairly obvious there won't be a new king on the throne, the tech press is back to it's old tactic of ripping Linux for every single thing it gets wrong, no matter how small.
I find it very telling that many of the same pundits that heralded a new era of computing - one which didn't include Microsoft - turned into exceptionally harsh critics of Linux almost overnight.
I guess it's important to gauge which direction the wind is blowing if you write a column for a living. Probably right up there with knowing what to kiss - and when.
I wonder if that might have been because the US computer industry finally woke up and realized it wasn't in the best interests of their business for Linux to triumph over Windows?
Because as long as Windows is the de facto OS for desktop, the US computer industry is able to exert a larger influence over the technology and direction of the industry than would be the case if a non-American controlled OS were running on most PCs.
But either way it doesn't really matter. Linux will be around for a long time. And Microsoft isn't going anywhere either.
:Thmbsup:
40hz:
Holy smokes, you were in on it at the beginning! And I thought I was daring in '98 and then again in'01. Took me until '06 to make the full switch.
-zridling (February 23, 2011, 02:21 PM)
--- End quote ---
Don't be too impressed. It took me almost six months to get it to where I was happy with it. And about two years total before I began seriously thinking it might someday be the dominant future OS. ;D
...aaaand we never were able to get Fido working smoothly on it :-[
Although other people apparently did.
(Or at least claimed they did. :P)
It wasn't until Knoppix 1.6 came out (2001? 2002?) that I became completely convinced we were really onto something.
---
That's why I had to ask MilesAhead why he felt the way he did.
Maybe it's just a matter of perspective based on where you started from - and where you're now standing.
If you started with SLS, Ubuntu was a major major major piece of innovation.
Much like an 18th century bricklayer would, no doubt, look at an electric cement mixer and an 8-hour workday and think he had seen the apogee of human progress and enlightenment.
It's all a matter of where you look and how you see it. :Thmbsup:
MilesAhead:
I did.
I handed a copy of a Ubuntu 6.06 live CD to my GF Alexis who, though very bright (and not afraid of technology), is definitely not a "computer person" like most of us here are.
She got it installed with no help from me. And she used it regularly, with very little hand holding afterwards. And that included installing/upgrading software and sorting out the occasional "missing dependency" problem when not installing from a repository.
--- End quote ---
But did you hand her a copy of Debian or Mandrake? I think what happened is Ubuntu basically took credit for the Debian Advanced Package Tool. As I noted, the easy install up to an X window manager with all your programs condfigured, including C/C++ compilers, interpreters like Perl and Python, was there with Mandrake, which used APT. It wasn't an innovation of Ubuntu. They just started shouting as if they thought of it. So I guess the "innovation" was to shout loud enough that people who might not try Linux would try it and think what they saw was "new."
Also a lot of the ease of installing and configuring Linux programs came after 2 things. PCI winning the bus wars, and developers standardizing on APT using standard directories to put things. Instead of fiddling with a tarball for 3 days I ran the installer for the APT package. Most of the time the app worked with maybe a tweak or two.
None of this stuff is a Ubuntu invention.
MilesAhead:
It's all a matter of where you look and how you see it.
--- End quote ---
I don't see innovation as taking credit for other people's work.
I started with Slackware having to edit the scripts under /etc to
get the system to boot with the options desired and recompiling
kernels to get driver support. To me the first innovation was modules support.
People will go by their own experience. If you tell them Lexus invented the automobile and it's the only car they've ever driven, then that's the fact until they learn better.
In any case, Linux to me is "been there done that." The guys who really wanted to make a living at it didn't have multi-boot with Windows there as a crutch like I did. They just did Linux. Maybe they came from a unix environment and saw a free PC equivalent. In any event when I first started some of the stuff you'd never figure out on your own. You had to get a book on configuring Linux, then go on usenet and carry water for a guru until he gave you a hint where to look. Some script under /etc that calls another script that calls another script that sets an environment variable.
If there's any props to easy Linux it's probably deserved by Debian.
40hz:
None of this stuff is a Ubuntu invention.
-MilesAhead (February 23, 2011, 03:47 PM)
--- End quote ---
I don't see innovation as taking credit for other people's work.
-MilesAhead (February 23, 2011, 03:55 PM)
--- End quote ---
I understand what you're saying, although I don't completely agree.
Because in some respects, it misses the point of the 'open' software development model. The whole point is nothing belongs to any one distro, group, or individual.
And while it's all well and good to try to claim something as "my innovation," most of the Linux world has a very good idea of who the real "firsts" and innovators are, and consequently ignores the wannabes and claim-jumpers.
Now if the press could just exercise a little journalistic discretion and actually research some of the things they report instead of cribbing it directly off somebody's press release, a lot of misunderstanding could be avoided.
re:GF
I showed her Mandrake. She didn't like it. She prefers Gnome to KDE. From what I've seen, most Windows users do. At least initially. That's because Gnome works, it's pretty - and it feels familiar. So rather than opting for the supposed "best" or more powerful window manager, Ubuntu went with something almost as capable, but more likely to be quickly understood by someone coming over to it from Microsoft Windows.
I think therein lies Shuttleworth's real contribution. Not being a part of those of us who "came up" through the ranks, he ignored all the techno-political philosophies (and other baggage) and created something that he - a non-"old guard" nixer - liked and could work with. And most of the new adopters seemed to appreciate what he put together - and paid for - out of his own pocket. (Don't forget Ubuntu was the only distro that ever shipped free CDs, in quantity, to anybody that requested them.)
I guess the way I look at it is a paraphrase of a comment by Gerry Weinberg. Basically, he said:
There is no limit to how much you can accomplish, or the amount of good you can bring into this world - as long as you don't care who ends up getting the credit for it.
From what I can see, the people who do the most to contribute to Linux have all come to embrace that philosophy.
:)
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