Main Area and Open Discussion > Living Room

Naming and Shaming Bad Forums with Bad Ethics

<< < (2/11) > >>

Bamse:
Yep, most forum noise comes from those who ask in a shoutbox kind of way and replies with no ambition of adding anything to the thread. I don't care so much for that, have gotten used to it. What annoys me is what link also shows, a massive poster with tons of virtual fame/"rep", a moderator even, posting in a way he should not. That is typical for many forums and I think it comes down to that few have any real active and visible management or any idiot can set up a forum, throw in some ads and call himself Admin. Probably not that easy to find people doing free work these days. So how things are run can come down to few individuals = there is a risk it will blow :) Those who eagerly volunteer are rarely the best candidates for such jobs but they often get them. This also apply to quite large forums btw. If out of control forum management is to blame.

RTFM is a perfectly good answer to many questions, especially when it comes to tech stuff. Depends on context of course. I think it is also used as a way of hinting the person asking has no grasp of what he is on about.

IainB, you cannot be thinking about normal popular tech forums in the year 2010. You assume X wants relevant information/knowledge and is not just looking for a quick workaround which must be so super easy to implement person will consider accepting it. Or you dream of reaching consensus for communication rules first, then we chat afterwards? Don't work like that, is chaos in uncontrolled environment where many grown ups act like children - but I do believe most comes down to lack of management. It is possible to delete posts, to correct posts, to give warnings, to ban etc. Basically letting users including new ones know there are certain written and unwritten rules. I don't see much of that. Can be delicate task and not all can do it but without door is open to "rep" hunters, trolls and whatever is drown in. Gets a life of its own and if a forum is more or less "controlled" by a handful of massive posters it is hard to change anything. They have their kingdom and forum admin is probably just glad he does not have to be bothered since it seems to run ok ;) I sense that is pretty normal. Does not have to be a problem but can be.

Not sure it is wise to name and shame forums unless very good reason. You can find threads like the one about irc client every where, every day. Need to evaluate overall value and management to declare something worthy of getting listed. That a moderator is the first to go Google it is not a good sign of course.

40hz:

RTFM is a perfectly good answer to many questions, especially when it comes to tech stuff. Depends on context of course.-Bamse (December 27, 2010, 04:40 AM)
--- End quote ---

Strongly disagree. RTFM is never an acceptable answer to any question. Because it is not an answer at all. It's just a thinly disguised way of telling someone to get lost.

I think when IainB said "IF I decide to assist them at all" he hinted at the ideal response for when you suspect somebody is being too lazy about seeking answers. Instead of grumping, say nothing at all.

Wow.

Silence...

Such an elegant response.

Almost Zen-like in its efficiency, sincerity, and humility...

Consider: It only takes a few seconds to type RTFM and hit the enter key. But it takes exactly zero work to ignore something completely and go elsewhere. Ideally where you do have something real to contribute.

---------------------------------------------

Looking at the DIC forum thread in question, something interesting does come up. The moderator's response was not just to tell the person to Google search. He actually provided a search link...which apparently had gotten misinterpreted as a "get lost" response.

When I hit it, it brought up several potentially useful links, the second (which pointed to http://sourceforge.net/projects/thresher/ ) definitely should have answered |337BuNNy's question.

Now why JackOfAllTrades didn't just provide the SourceForge project link is anybody's guess. But I suspect he was probably trying not to presume that one citation would be sufficient.

So I think in this case  "What we have here, is failure to communicate."  ;)

Of course a far better response to the original question can be found a little further down in the same Google search. Take a look at StackOverflow to see how it got  handled there.

 8)

Bamse:
No you don't have to answer but some will and so you have the noise - which you also will have to wade through. High standards of what is worthy of spending time on will likely make you go silent so if that is cool then they work. In real life you as a visitor/user will need forum management to step in/up to secure those standards.

RTFM is answer to many questions, like for example on how to assemble your computer properly. Read help files can also be useful. Actually just looking at options, settings in programs can do wonders. Many times people ask because they are lazy and are looking for solutions they think are easier than those they deep down know they should explore. That is when RTFM is ok - or skip the manual but spend time understanding the problem so understandable questions can be asked and answered. Life is hard ;)

On the other hand I would be careful about relying on a Google search. You don't know what you get.

Renegade:
It seems to me that there are 2 distinct senses of "RTFM" being used here.

The most common being "read the f***ing manual and p**s off you lazy <expletive>" sense. I don't see that as ever being acceptable. As above, silence is the elegant way to deal with extreme laziness. ("I want to write a <blah>. Post complete source." -- Spelling and grammar errors omitted -- We've all seen them. Some kid wants someone to do his homework, or whatever...)

But telling someone to read the manual (F omitted) is certainly valid. And there's a decent way to do it. Tell them the overview of what's in the manual, then tell them to refer to it for details or more information. I do it all the time. But that's RTM and not RTFM.

Granted, I can't see myself ever bothering to reply to some lazy slob who clearly is looking for an easy out.

Still, the general fear of "RTFM" prevents me from posting, and instead, I do extensive research.

As pointed out above, Stack Overflow really has a good community with people posting decent questions and helpful responses. It's one of the few places that I have posted or would post at.

Then again, it's run in part by Joel Spolsky, who ran the Joel on Software blog and discussion forums for a long time. The JoS forums are really no longer used much, but he obviously got some good experience there in running a very successful discussion forum. I know many of the moderators there, and they're all level-headed people and not power-freaks.

40hz:

But telling someone to read the manual (F omitted) is certainly valid. And there's a decent way to do it. Tell them the overview of what's in the manual, then tell them to refer to it for details or more information. I do it all the time. But that's RTM and not RTFM.
-Renegade (December 27, 2010, 07:04 AM)
--- End quote ---

I'll agree to that. I say "You really need to read the docs." all the time. 8)

And I am not ashamed. ;D

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page

[*] Previous page