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Tipping - Why does this appear to be a "requirement"?

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Josh:
Again, not to sound cold because that is not my intent, is that my concern when I go out to eat? If I worried about everyone who was being underpaid, I would tip the people at walmart who ring up my merchandise who make nothing, work 40+ hours per week, and receive no real set of benefits, I would tip the people at mcdonalds working drive thru, I would tip the person working the gas station, etc. I go to a restaurant to eat, not worry about the employment decision made by an individual. At what point do I stop worrying about everyone else and start worrying more about my family and my own obligations?

Again, I am not trying to sound cold, but I take this viewpoint from a realist standpoint and realize that I cannot affect everyone's pay without affecting those whom I have a direct responsibility for (My family). I am not going to tip someone an arbitrary amount set by tradition because it is the normal thing to do. I am going to tip you if I feel you earned it and even then I will tip the amount I feel you earned, not some arbitrary percentage.

wraith808:
Again, not to sound cold because that is not my intent, is that my concern when I go out to eat? If I worried about everyone who was being underpaid, I would tip the people at walmart who ring up my merchandise who make nothing, work 40+ hours per week, and receive no real set of benefits, I would tip the people at mcdonalds working drive thru, I would tip the person working the gas station, etc. I go to a restaurant to eat, not worry about the employment decision made by an individual. At what point do I stop worrying about everyone else and start worrying more about my family and my own obligations?

Again, I am not trying to sound cold, but I take this viewpoint from a realist standpoint and realize that I cannot affect everyone's pay without affecting those whom I have a direct responsibility for (My family). I am not going to tip someone an arbitrary amount set by tradition because it is the normal thing to do. I am going to tip you if I feel you earned it and even then I will tip the amount I feel you earned, not some arbitrary percentage.
-Josh (October 01, 2010, 10:19 AM)
--- End quote ---

But the point is, they aren't underpaid as in their salary is low.  They are not *paid* by the establishment, because of how the industry sets up the pay scale.  The people at walmart make $x/hr to do their job.  That's what's communicated as their rate of pay.  When a waiter is hired, his rate of pay is $x/hr + tips.  That's how it's stated and what's communicated.  And before you say that it's their fault for signing on... look at the economy.  The same reason that people take jobs at walmart is the same reason that people wait tables.  Because they need a job that fits their skills.

Renegade:
This all goes to distribution of wealth.

JavaJones:
Very interesting thread. My girlfriend has been a server for about 7 years, she's actually good at it, but of course doesn't want to do it the rest of her life. Fortunately she's getting out of it now. But I digress. For obvious reasons I have a lot of understanding of and sympathy for the situation servers and other restaurant staff are in. It's an industry-wide systemic issue, and yes it's unlikely to change any time soon. So the thing is, I agree in principle with Josh, but I know that reality has other plans, so I tip - I tip fairly generously in fact. Usually no more than 20%, but seldom less than 15%! It *is* comensurate with service however.

The comments about service potentially being worse in other countries are very interesting for me. As I said I agree with Josh and have long wished for a more normal wage situation in food service, both for my needs as a customer, and for the stability and sanity of those employees. I've never really thought that maybe service *is* actually better as a result of our otherwise totally f*****d system though. Obviously a few anecdotal reports are not evidence enough, but it's intriguing at the least. Wraith's comments are particularly interesting, and echo my experiences with a significant other in the industry as well, i.e. not tipping just hurts the servers, it will never effect actual meaningful change.

I actually had vague notions of opening a restaurant at some point and trying an experiment: pay people good wages *and* give them benefits. The catch? I as the owner would not make any (or at least much) money off of it. A lot of owners, at least of successful restaurants, *do* make decent money off it; sometimes very good money. What do they do to justify it? Depends on the owner, certainly. But in many cases not much! Of course they did a lot more to begin with - they usually funded or at least managed it to start, they had the idea, they put in the work early on and got it started. And for many owners there can be a lot of ongoing maintenance, at least if they're not willing/able to hire a good manager. But anyway, I'm still curious just what it would cost to have a restaurant paying people decently, and not expecting tips... I don't really think 300% increase in food costs is necessary, quite honestly. But then I haven't done the math. I guess one interesting point is that the money is already there and has to come from somewhere. People pay *at most* 20% on average for tips, probably more like 10-15% is the average, and servers industry-wide basically "make ends meet", along with the bussers, cooks, dish washer, etc. So if that's the case, er, surely increasing the cost of everything 20% would do it??

- Oshyan

J-Mac:
You are a fine gentleman Oshyan.  :)

Thanks!

Jim

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