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General brainstorming for Note-taking software
Spivey:
Hi, thanks for your comments. I agree, the file-system-as-back-end approach has many limitations. With current Windows (I don't know a lot about other operating systems) there are missing pieces that make implementing something like this more difficult and less satisfactory. It's interesting that the future Windows file system, (the one they left out of Vista) seems to be moving much more in the direction of a database with a virtual approach to organizing files (so Rover, I think your idea of a better OS is coming). OS X already has hints of this with its Smartfolders, and probably other aspects as well. It seems that future OS's will be much more like PIMs.
Like Jimdoria and Nevf point out, one of the biggest issues with trying this now is keeping track of files when they are moved from their original locations. Keynote certainly has this problem. One slightly mitigating factor is that if the Virtual File Manager (let's give it a name) is the chief way you organize your files, then their actual location in the file system becomes less important and there is less need to move them. I have other ideas too- more later.
As for moving the data or syncing it between computers, I wonder if this is as difficult as it seems. There are currently lots of ways of syncing a set of files from one place to another- consider backup schemes for example. If the Virtual File Manager stored the locations of the files you were organizing within it then it should be possible to use that info to copy or move those files elsewhere.
The issue of which capabilities to include in the viewer/editor is one of the most difficult. Overdo it and you create so much bulk and slow things down to the point that using the original applications is less trouble. Under-do it and you are constantly switching to the original applications to do what you can't do in the viewer, so you might as well just use them anyway. Exactly which capabilities are needed depends on the user, so an approach similar to Extensions in Firefox might be a good way to go about it. This way each person can decide what is useful for them and what trade-offs are worth making.
I think there are definitely benefits to being able to work on files directly within the managing application. If not we wouldn't bother with note applications, we would just use the Windows Explorer to arrange a bunch of text files or whatever. For me the key benefits are speed and avoiding the distractions of switching contexts. A single interface with my data and the tools I need all at my fingertips is a so much more efficient way of working.
This is getting pretty long, so I'll continue my comments in another post.
Spivey:
Rover brought up the point I left out in my first post- search. A virtual file manager on its own doesn't fully replicate the most important features of note software, something very much like a desktop search program is needed too. I don't know whether any existing ones could be recruited to do the job or not, and I think this is probably the greatest weakness of this approach to building the Ultimate Note Software. Those who know please correct me if I'm wrong, but my guess is that making an arrangeable tree with links to files on the disk is the easy part (by comparison) and that developing an indexing desktop search engine along the lines of Google's is a pretty big undertaking.
Rover also mentioned that the way to make this work is to associate new attributes with existing files. And like JimDoria says, since Windows is quite limited here we need to store and link these attributes ourselves. This is where I wonder whether GDS could do the job: we need some way to connect the attributes/metadata we add in our virtual file manager with the files concerned and base our searches on both. Is anyone here familiar enough with the GDS API and this sort of problem in general to comment on the possibility?
If we have an indexing search application that can work closely with the Virtual File Manager, this should help some with the with the file tracking problem mentioned previously. With the indexer monitoring when files are moved, added, deleted etc, this info becomes available to the VFM too. The chief problem I see is knowing with certainty which files are which. (I'm getting seriously out of my depth here so please blow the whistle whenever you care to! :P) - As far as I know there are no entirely unique file identifiers in the Windows file system. So what we are left with are attributes like filename, size, location, creation dates, access dates, etc, most of which can change. With these alone it is probably not going to be possible 100 percent of the time to maintain links between the metadata in the VFM and the files concerned. Still, it will be better than no tracking whatsoever.
So what do you think? If we had both a virtual file manager and a closely cooperating search application, do you think it would float?
And now for the hard part! 8) - Is something like this doable by mere mortals, or does it take a Google or a Microsoft?
More coming...
Spivey:
Here's few more specific responses:
Thanks for the Eclipse link, Jimdoria. The name sounds familiar in this context, but I don't remember specifically what it was. I'll be checking that out.
Superboyac:
--How do you deal with notes you wish to keep private, or only accessed by password? If each note is a separate file, wouldn't someone be able to look at it any time, without the use of a program?
--- End quote ---
With this approach to organizing I don't think the Virtual File Manager would be responsible for that. If a file you accessed through it was otherwise password protected (ie: by Windows, or a compression/encryption application) you would be prompted by the OS or the associated program for the password. A feature of the VFM could be to keep such files open as long as you were using the file manager so that you wouldn't need to re-enter the password every time you switched away from and back to the same note. If you wanted a whole bunch of files to be password protected you could just store them on an encrypted drive instead.
--What do you do about captured content? Like Surfulater, which can capture content from webpages and other applications...how do you incorporate that into a format where each note is a seperate file?
--- End quote ---
There are already a number of web capture programs that save web pages as HTML and their associated files directly into a Windows directory rather than into a database. The Firefox Extension- Scrapbook for one. The VFM would work with these files.
Nevf:
In my opinion you are better all around to a) maintain (auto) synchronized copies of your external files within the database,..
--- End quote ---
I think this solves the key problem of how to search file content and your added metadata simultaneously- and this is probably where my idea breaks down. On the other hand, as far as I can see, the problem of tracking external files still exists- only now it's for the purpose of syncing the internal copies with the external files.
Rover:
OK, even without the explore extension, whatever, there are some things that can quickly search files:
- GDS (it kinda sucks, but it does it)
- dtSearch. Google them. They build an index to quickly search everything.
- Novell has a Linux desktop search call Beagle that monitors file write activity so it doesn't have to search/index in the middle of the night (like GDS and dtSearch).
I only mention these because dtSearch can be embedded and used as part of an application so it doesn't take a goodle or microsoft to write something like that.
A quick search of sourceforge found: a lot of dead projects and a lot of GDS plug-ins.
It seems that managing information is a big task :)
Plasma Man:
Following up on this "Virtual File Manager" idea ... have you guys discussed Soft Gems before? In particular, Virtual Treeview http://www.soft-gems.net/VirtualTreeview/
This project looks like a genuine attempt to develop a fast, efficient and fluid engine for data management / search / recall, based on "nodes". In other words, this kind of engine used within the context of note-taking software, hot-rodded PIMs and the like, could be extremely versatile. I like the idea here - trees that morph into other trees ...
Btw, there is a related site: http://www.mustangpeak.net/ with a demo of List View, based on VTV (or maybe it was was the other way round).
Andre
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