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General brainstorming for Note-taking software
Rover:
Hey Spivey - Welcome to the site. Being that this is one of my favorite threads, I'm glad you like it too.
I've been contemplating some similar thoughts. As I started out to discuss the database design (in another thread), I wondered why we needed to create a database at all. What we could do is focus on writing cool extensions for Google Desktop and allow it to search for our stuff. That is effectively using the filesystem as the database.
My concerns where:
1) Not cross platform. Sorry, I like linux and I want to move there someday.
2) We now require GDS for our notes... not a self contained package anymore.
3) Doesn't fit with my end game. -- see below
Somewhere along the line, I really think we need a database oriented file system. Or at least a better hook into the existing filesystem to associate attributes. Or maybe just a database standard to write applications against. You start with a nice Note Taking system, add some To Do templates, a little reminder flag, some date functions and pretty soon you've got a nice PIM. Best of all, you should be able to link a note to an appointment without having to copy/paste, etc.
Associating attributes to files is the key to the virtual views you mentioned. The files have to have some common attribute to associate them and make the association meaningful. If you can associate attributes to a file, you can create virtual views easily. (psudocode: select files where attributes contains "vfolder1")
Does that make any sense? :)
superboyac:
Spidey, great first post!
I thought about your idea, and I really like it. I'm not a programmer, so I'll leave the technical discussion to the others here, but I'll comment on the conceptual aspect of it. I love the whole modular approach of what you are saying. As an engineer, I love when solutions are modular because it offers flexibility and reversibility, which are very valuable building blocks, especially when the are unknown variables that only the future will bring about.
In one of my recent posts here, I mentioned something about starting from the fundamental element, the note, and building from there. And you took it a step further and explained that the note should be a universal and standardized file, and the notetaking application would basically just be a frontend for managing and organizing the notes. That's a fantastic idea. It also will potentially allow users or programmers to build an infinite amount of organizational schemes based on the notes.
I have to sleep now, but as you can see, I'm really excited about the idea and hopefully someone will be able to implement it. Doesn't AskSam do something like this? Even if it did, I've tried AskSam at least 3 times and was less than impressed, I could never get into it.
Here are some issues that come to me, I'll throw it out there:
--How do you deal with notes you wish to keep private, or only accessed by password? If each note is a separate file, wouldn't someone be able to look at it any time, without the use of a program?
--What do you do about captured content? Like Surfulater, which can capture content from webpages and other applications...how do you incorporate that into a format where each note is a seperate file?
PS. Rover is just dying for a program that interfaces with Google Desktop Search! Sorry, but I have no ideas on that. I feel your pain, though!
Jimdoria:
Welcome, Spivey!
I too toyed with the idea of using the file system as the back end for the ultimate Note Taking software. It does have some excellent benefits, and addresses the interoperability issue neatly. I left it out of my previous posts because they were so durn long already, and because, in the applications where I have seen this kind of scheme implemented, it sucked really bad.
I have to believe that it is due to limitations of the operating system, not lack of smart programmers trying to make it work. Generally, they linked files in the file system with some kind of database (to overcome the limited information available from the file system, as Rover mentioned.) This presents problems with synchronization that are probably not trivial. I won't go into a lot of technical details, but there are issues how the app can track things like files being moved around, brought into or out of the system from outside (i.e. through Windows Explorer), files being changed while the program isn't running, etc. Not to say it isn't doable, but it's probably not as easy as it looks at first glance.
Apps such as you describe do exist. Eclipse is one. It's free and you may want to check it out. Here's a link to the article that first got me interested in it:
http://www.grainge.org/pages/authoring/eclipse/eclipse.htm
Eclipse is not ready for prime time, though. It's a developer's tool and a bit to wonky (IMHO) for general use.
nevf:
Another Welcome Spivey,
As Jimdoria mentioned there are some fundamental problems with tracking external files, in particular when they get moved. A more sophisticated OS (than Windows) that kept a history of each files location(s), that could be queried by an application, is needed to be able to handle this.
Several other issues come to mind as well.
First is they whole notion of being able to quickly and easily move your database from one PC to another (think work - home). If everything you need is stored in the one place (a database) this is easy, but not so when there are lots of external files involved. Related to this is the ability (need) to synchronize databases across PC's or share content on an Intranet or Web site. How do you handle these external files in these scenarios.
Second is the issue of the capabilities that can be delivered to edit these external files within the Note Taking application. Specifically can you get all of the features of say MS Word or Excell included in the Note Taking app, or are you better off using the native application itself. And can you get all of the applications you want to use to embed themselves in your Note Taking app, or just a few. And finally are you making the Note Taking app overly cumbersome and complex by having these other applications embedded in it.
If all of these issues could be elegantly resolved then I agree this could be a nice way to work.
In my opinion you are better all around to a) maintain (auto) synchronized copies of your external files within the database, and b) utilize their native applications for editing, except where editing for a specific file type is native to the Note Taking application.
SuperBoyac - I'll reply to your Surfulater comments asap. I'm trying to get a new release out today. 8)
superboyac:
Well, now that I've thought about it more, and reading nevf's explanation, I can see the difficulties with having each note be an individual file. (I know, I'm fickle!) Anyway, I still like the idea of having a fundamental note element, but whether it's an actual file or just contained and managed within the program itself is another issue. For the most part, it sounds like it's more realistic to have the program be in charge of it, since the logistics of handling individual files seems to not be practical.
I guess a possible workaround would be very powerful importing/exporting capabilities within the program. That way, at least a person can be comfortable knowing that he can move his information between programs should he choose to. Right now, that is not really possible, and commitment to one of these programs is a big issue with a lot of us (at least for me). Of the programs I've seen, Mybase has hands-down the most flexible/powerful importing/exporting featureset. THey just have a lot of options to go about it. I remember that Keynote was pretty flexible also. The other programs are not so great regarding this yet.
I think good importing/exporting would be almost as good as having individual files. Programmers, feel free to comment.
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