Main Area and Open Discussion > General Software Discussion
General brainstorming for Note-taking software
superboyac:
Surfulater works this way. There is only ever one physical instance of a 'note', but it can be in as many tree folders as you want.
Surfulater also lets you link related 'notes' together so you build a web of related information. This is very useful.
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Ah! I didn't realize this about Surfulater at first. Now I see some of the sophistication in the program. Very cool!
I don't see a tight connection between the hierarchical tree and tags (labels, keywords whatever).
Tags are separate organizational method which can be used in a variety of ways. For example you get a list of all tags and selecting one shows all notes which include that tag. Tags could also be used in conjunction with filtered tree views. In this mode the tree would only include notes that included a certain tag or tags. With a good implementation of tags some folks might not even use the tree.
Time to go get some sleep.
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You know, I think I agree with you here. As my notes grow more and more in number, I'm becoming weary and tired of the whole heirarchy system. In fact, when I'm too lazy and can't figure out exactly where a note is supposed to go, I place it in a temporary branch called "unorganzied notes". Then I go back and place them in the correct branch later. Of course, I wouldn't have this problem if I could assign the note multipe tags. So, I think you've hit the nail on the head here. But that being said, and correct me if I'm wrong here nevf, Surfulater doesn't seem to use a strictly tagging system. It seems that Surfulater has the ability to place the note in multiple folders, but the folders are still arranged in the typical tree structure. Maybe I am understanding this concept differently than you.
The way I am thinking about it is like in the PowerMarks program (for bookmarking internet sites). I'll post a screenshot of it later, but in that program, there is no tree structure at all anywhere. Instead, for each bookmark, you assign keywords (optional), and you can have the keywords displayed all in an alphabetical list in a pane on the left. Once you select a keyword, all the bookmarks that match it will be displayed in the main pane on the right. You know, PowerMarks might be a really good example of how to make a powerful notetaking program! It would be kind of like Evernote in function, only better, because it would handle large amounts of notes a little more traditionally like Surfulater or Mybase and Keynote.
kfitting:
I mostly agree with you... except I think that trees should still be an option. If you're trying to write a book or write an outline you want only certain nodes in a certain order. The final implentation should allow both. You should be able to throw things in, but then "hard assign" them as needed (they would still be in the database pool for other groupings, but that one group would always contain it).
Kevin
superboyac:
I mostly agree with you... except I think that trees should still be an option. If you're trying to write a book or write an outline you want only certain nodes in a certain order. The final implentation should allow both. You should be able to throw things in, but then "hard assign" them as needed (they would still be in the database pool for other groupings, but that one group would always contain it).
Kevin
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True...no one can complain if both options are available. I'd love having the flexibility, that's for sure. I think Surfulater kind of is an example of this sort of flexibility. You can view the notes in the typical tree with all folders and notes displayed in the tree, or with just the folders displayed, and you can even see it in chronological format. So it offers several different ways of looking at the same data. In that respect, Surfulater offers a solution to the problem I have with Evernote, where you can really only view the data in chronological sorting.
nevf:
superboyac, Surfulater doesn't have tags at all yet, only the tree. When tags are added they will indeed work much the same as Powermarks, but do more than that.
The tree will still be there just as it is now. If you want to organize in a hierarchy go for it, if you want to use tags then do, if you want to have the best of both a hierarchy and a tags system you can. Nothing will force you into one approach or the other. I'm personally really looking forward to seeing how this works in practice.
Anyone who has worked with large tree's quickly gets frustrated. You can spend more time "working the tree" than getting useful work done. Surfulater provides several tree views such as with/without notes, only notes in a specific folder etc. which help a lot, but large tree's are still a hassle. If it gets too hard to categorize and organize information then people stop doing it and end up with a whole lot of content in an "unorganzied notes" folder as you comment on.
I've also spent some time researching automated text classification systems. The idea here is that new notes could automatically be placed in to specific folders based on their content. After talking to various people, I've decided to put this on the back burner for a while as indications are such systems don't work all that well. Further they'd most likely only be used by power users. That said I'm still interested in this, as well as too many other things. ;D
jgiebeler:
Just a quick note on this. During the last few weeks I downloaded a ton of programs (including the ones discussed at the beginning of this thread). I don't see what the interest in MyBase is? I installed this program and promptly uninstalled it because I didn't see anything I wanted to use.
In my view (perhaps different from yours because I am an architect/law student). I want a nice UI and easy access to my information. The information is what it is all about. As far as a text only programs there should be not discussion. There are a ton of text editors that all do the same thing. What is important is a tool that will allow you to gather information from everywhere (the web included) organize it (usually trees) and link it. Obviously the ability to grab information from the internet is important (because there is so much information out there) but you need to also be able to use simple text or import from other sources, docs, pdfs, etc.
With this said, I am placing my bet on Surfulater. I down loaded this program with about 20 others and it is still installed. My process for evaluating is as follows:
1. Go to download.com and do a general search so you get as many results as possible (then do it again so you do miss it)
2. Go through the hundreds of results, read the descriptions, look at screenshots, visit homepages, and finally download promising programs.
3. Install all the promising programs (I do it while I am searching)
4. Gather all the new shortcuts on the desktop, and open each of the programs
5. If the UI sucks - uninstall the program
6. Take a closer feature look at each of the remaining programs. Can you import the information you want? Does it work well with other programs? Can you input data easily (i.e. is the structure of the program not so restrictive that it takes to long to input simple date), etc, etc,
I did this, and have already deleted many "promising" programs. Surfulater is still running and here is why:
It is a web companion yes, but I can also use it to input practically anything else with the attachment and clipboard utility. To understand the features you'd have to try it. A good quick view of the possibly it to look at the help section - it was created in the program and is obviously not just clippings from the web.
Here are a few features I loved:
1. I can create many different "books" (that's what I am calling them). I have created, Projects, Personal, School, and AEC. The books are displayed as colored tabs along the top so I can quickly switch between each, and in each book I can have as many articles and folders I want.
2. It is the best for capturing web articles. I can download just the part I selected, the selection and the page (which appears as a thumbnail by the imported selection), or the selection and a link to the page. The title automatically is inserted as well as a link.
3. Here come the best features - accessibility to data - to any note I can add comments, a reference, attachments, or "see also" (which creates a bi directional link to another article.
4. Visibility - I have never seen this feature but I love it. Next to each of the items noted above there is a minimize button so I can hide, the article and just view my comments, links, etc. Also if I click on the "Roofs" folder I can see all the sub articles instantly without having to select each separately.
5. The clip board tool. I am working on a project with about 100 pages of restrictions, and I am using Surfulater to organize these. I scanned the document into PDF format. When I read something I need to reference, I select it and copy it, then I go to Surfulater and create a new article base on this selection, then I put in my comments, i.e. what we are going to do to comply with the requirement
Anyway the possibilities are endless. I really never write reviews for programs, but I am just extremely impressed with Surfulater. I haven't found a program quite like it, and if you guys really want the best editor - information compiler- possible, I would at least try it. I still don't understand what you liked about MyBase. I chose "General knowledge Base 2.2" over MyBase, and even that has been replaced by Surfulater...did I miss something? I don't remember being impressed.
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