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Do user forums sometimes stop software from improving?

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Armando:
I find that Jibz makes a good point, but Target does to.

Yes, I too, sometimes, feel annoyed when some critical suggestions or bug reports are received with workarounds as if those would replace true solutions. Or when someone feeds me with a long justification for a problem that should rather be fixed. But do these really hinder software's development? Maybe in a few situations, but it's very contextual and one needs to be aware of the broader picture (not just the individuals' perspective) to really know whether it's the case (a hindrance, or not) or if, on the contrary, the offered explanation/solution is more of a balm that won't have any "negative impact" (i.e. : no evolution) on the software in the long term, etc.

E.g. :
Is the "super user" just dismissing problems ? Is he giving a workaround plus suggesting something to the developer ? Is he also encouraging the user to express his views ? Is he also sending a PM to the developer to urge him to do something about it ? Etc. etc. IMO, it's not easy at all to know what's truly a hindrance and what impact posts and threads have on a developer’s work and perspective.


By dismissing that kind of  “help/forum participation”, framing it and making generalizations (whether accurate or not), I think one simply runs the risk of discouraging participation in general and actually slowing things down even more. Who wants to feel like a jerk, spending time to help others but being laughed at in return?


So, yes, I did say I sometimes feel annoyed when getting workarounds and justifications instead of true solutions, but… usually, I actually feel grateful for any feedback, even if someone is offering something a bit different than what I wanted or expected. I mean, really, unless I explicitly said what I wanted/didn't want (e.g. : "Please, no workarounds. This is a criticism/suggestion/issue that isn't calling for any "dirty quick fix"), how would/should the person offering help guess that I'm not interested in what she has to offer, and, more importantly, why would she even assume that, especially if she’s participating in… a forum? And, even more importantly, why would that person assume that her workaround/solution would influence the developper to not go further and dismiss the problem... instead of the contrary : inspire the developer to find a better solution?


Now, as Target says, I find that when someone isn't satisfied with a workaround, it's really up to the person having a problem to clearly explain to all and especially to the developer what happens and what is expected (e.g. : a dumb workaround is okay for the next few weeks, but it won't do next month ; this fix should be implemented, etc.), in the forum, AND using the other provided vehicles. The more explicit, the better. And if it's important, post more than once. And all others who feel the same, post too (send, PMs, emails, etc.) .

And, really, in general, those who help aren't guilty of helping or hindering the software's progression, unless (maybe) they've been told not to and still do. But how often does that happen ?

My 2¢

(Yes, I’m a “super user” in the IQ forum. Fortunately, I don’t have a long signature at the bottom of my posts, so I think I’m okay... ;) )

P.S. : And, from what I observed and witnessed, user forums are extremely helpful to developers... But some close them once software reached V1 for marketing reasons. I can certainly understand that, but I'm not sure if it's the best alternative.

Paul Keith:
No, it doesn't but just in case you might want to ask of this in other places that aren't forums. (I was thinking of copy pasting this thread into Quora but I was too lazy to ask you)

The only thing that can hinder software is the software developer himself.

If he's not prepared for the butt load of feedback or he feels too bothered by the negativity, that's pretty much all on him to read through what he can implement.

It's misrepresenting the passion of the users IMO to pass the problem to them.

If the community needs updating or the forum needs a new model or even if the developer can't handle the feedback anymore, he himself could alert the community or maybe give them a warning that if they can't self-police the content, he may not be able to implement the most desirable features.

Sure, he'll alienate users but in the end, isn't the point of the software or the product to release it in ways that satisfies the features he truly wants? The feedback is just there to give him ideas on how to further improve the software. This should go too for workarounds. In the end, if he can't even understand what workaround should be implemented natively and what shouldn't, then either he's out of touch with his community and he needs to work on that first...or he doesn't really want to listen to them after all and he just wants to cling to his software model without losing his customers/fans.

Let's look at the most common workaround for Linux for example. Ubuntu users will keep saying how Mint's way of not needing to install codecs by default is nothing special and it can easily be worked around by following or pushing a few buttons but if you are the Ubuntu developers, if it's really that easy of a work around, shouldn't it be obvious that it can be done by default and might help make it easier for people to switch to Linux?

There's no miracle thought that needs to go there unless it can potentially slow down the software and add bloat but it doesn't. So what's the hold up? If you're afraid of ruffling feathers why not create a separate edition with it pre-installed?

Instead Mint does the obvious and with that simple thought, Mint went from freedom to elegance. Not because that one feature changed Mint for many users or that Mint is perfect.

It did simply because it changed the culture and the expectations of what Mint is as a Linux distro and with that momentum the developer can use that pattern to hone and filter out what other problems or features may need to be improved upon to better serve the needs of it's users.

It's almost a waterfall method. That first approach of the developer will always help him in filtering out and deciding which points he will adopt from the community and which he will leave as a work around but it's all on him. On the top guy and if people aren't satisfied, well...that's his call. How will he retain his users but there shouldn't be anything blamed on the users themselves.

If someone doesn't like New Coke and they complained to you about it, that's not a risk. That's your users creating extra demand for Classic Coke. Be courageous in adopting work arounds. Go ahead and dare to ruin software by improving it. You always have the old model to get back to if things don't work out.

That said, as always, I know zero thing about programming much less software development so I'm just talking out of my a-hole.

Armando:

The only thing that can hinder software is the software developer himself.

If he's not prepared for the butt load of feedback or he feels too bothered by the negativity, that's pretty much all on him to read through what he can implement.

-Paul Keith (June 24, 2010, 10:50 PM)
--- End quote ---

I'd say so to. If you can't handle a forum and all the suggestions, yes, maybe it can become a problem.

A different question could be asked (not in this thread of course... Not hijacking intended) : How can a software developper make the best usage out of "user forum" to constantly improve his/her software (best and worst practices) ?

Target:
true, the only thing preventing the development process is the developer, but users can and do hinder the process by not providing feedback (ask any developer)

the thing about forums is that a work around may be posted in response to 1 request, but it may be read and implemented by hundreds (or thousands).  

Now the developers are aware that there is an issue, but as far as they can see, it's only affected 1 or 2 users so the incentive to act on it is much lower than it would be if all 1000 affected users contacted them about the issue.

The majority of users will probably also fall into the category of, well, users (and I'll put myself into that category in a lot of cases).  That is to say they will use the app, but they won't necessarily be terribly well educated about it, and this means that a significant proportion of posts will be about stuff that is already in the fine manual or adds nothing to the app (hey, when can I start skinning?, will you be implementing sound effects?, etc).

if nothing else this can make (high volume?) forums onerous to monitor (needles in the haystack...)

That's not to say that intelligent users don't make useful suggestions, but the fact is that people can and do use you're applications, but they almost never talk to you about it (if there's a bug, they'll tell all their friends what pos it is, and if it works well, they'll just use it and not say anything to anyone)

Paul Keith:
A different question could be asked (not in this thread of course... Not hijacking intended) : How can a software developper make the best usage out of "user forum" to constantly improve his/her software (best and worst practices) ?
--- End quote ---

Yeah, that's why I was thinking of sharing the question via Quora.

Who else but but engineers and designers of large startups/corporations like Facebook/LinkedIn/etc have the greatest chances of experiencing and dealing with this in a unique way small developers have never even considered?

true, the only thing preventing the development process is the developer, but users can and do hinder the process by not providing feedback (ask any developer)
--- End quote ---

Well, this is a reverse issue in my opinion.

There's a difference between too much feedback overload and too little.

Too much and it's on the developer to filter it out.

Too little and it's on the developer to make it easier to generate feedbacks.

Just two different animals in my opinion.

Now the developers are aware that there is an issue, but as far as they can see, it's only affected 1 or 2 users so the incentive to act on it is much lower than it would be if all 1000 affected users contacted them about the issue.

The majority of users will probably also fall into the category of, well, users (and I'll put myself into that category in a lot of cases).  That is to say they will use the app, but they won't necessarily be terribly well educated about it, and this means that a significant proportion of posts will be about stuff that is already in the fine manual or adds nothing to the app (hey, when can I start skinning?, will you be implementing sound effects?, etc).

if nothing else this can make (high volume?) forums onerous to monitor (needles in the haystack...)

That's not to say that intelligent users don't make useful suggestions, but the fact is that people can and do use you're applications, but they almost never talk to you about it (if there's a bug, they'll tell all their friends what pos it is, and if it works well, they'll just use it and not say anything to anyone)
--- End quote ---

Finally, this is another different issue which deals with the conversational structure limits of forums as per my post here.

(Ok, I admit that thread doesn't have anything to do with this topic but I just want to get more people to reply to that.)

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