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20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Innuendo:
That's one of the reasons why all those unstoppable-psycho-serial-killer franchises (Freddie Kreuger, Jason, et al) have so many sequels. Hollywood will not allow these stories to end with evil triumphant.-40hz (June 24, 2010, 10:52 PM)
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Huh.
So....all these years Hollywood has been pushing out drek sequels in order to deliver an uplifting message that good will eventually prevail.
Here I thought it was just a money grab.
40hz:
^Nope. There are certain unofficial but very real taboos the US movie industry observes. Evil does not triumph. Children are not to be subjected to cruelty or physical harm. You may threaten harm. But have a scene in a script where a child actually gets hurt and your script will be tossed in the trash. And religions beliefs are not to be blasphemed or ridiculed either. You can take a jab at a bad clergyman or fringe religion. But you can forget about poking fun at or criticizing any of the major faiths. Same goes for most government figures and offices. You can have a corrupt politician or judge, but you will not be allowed to imply that all government, or it's judicial system are corrupt.
In the late 60s, there was a pilot made for a TV series where the United States became a fascist police state in the wake of an undisclosed crisis. It dealt with a highly patriotic member of the dreaded Internal Security Forces (i.e. the secret police) who gradually began to realize everything he believed in was a lie. The series was supposed to show his gradual transition to rebel against the government. It was televised once and has never been aired since. The title of the pilot was Shadow on the Land.
Despite a favorable reception from viewers, the series never entered into production. And despite numerous requests coupled with a minor campaign to get this pilot released on DVD, to date nothing has occurred or been promised. Most people who have been involved in the campaign have come to the conclusion it never will be rereleased. Maybe there are a few too many parallels between some of what is in this film and post 9/11 America for comfort?
There's more, but the above examples should give you some idea of the sort of things Hollywood self-censors.
In a way it's kind of funny. Moral conservatives constantly criticize the film industry for it's lack of restraint and respect when it has always ( except for a brief period in the 70s where anything went ) been very careful not to risk offending mainstream sensibilites.
8)
4wd:
Children are not to be subjected to cruelty or physical harm. You may threaten harm. But have a scene in a script where a child actually gets hurt and your script will be tossed in the trash.-40hz (June 26, 2010, 10:36 PM)
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How does that gel with the ending of The Mist ?
While you don't actually get to see the deed done, the killing of the boy is very graphically implied. (Apologies to people who may not have seen the film but what I've typed in no way gives away the whole plot.)
But then, the SciFi/Horror genre is allowed a bit more flexibility with regard to how a story ends.
That's one of the reasons why all those unstoppable-psycho-serial-killer franchises (Freddie Kreuger, Jason, et al) have so many sequels. Hollywood will not allow these stories to end with evil triumphant.-40hz (June 24, 2010, 10:52 PM)
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I would have put it down as trying to milk more money out of the movie watchers. If they just didn't want to end with evil being triumphant then they could have stopped at Friday the 13th or A nightmare on Elm Street 3: Dream Warriors, (to use your two psycho examples), but they didn't. From that point on it was just greed, IMO. (If you follow the premise of New Nightmare you could actually say that Evil has won - who else would be causing all these crappy sequels to be inflicted upon us?)
Anyone who enjoys the SciFi/Horror genre will go along and see the sequel no matter how bad it is, they'll watch the following sequels in the hope they will be better than the previous, etc, etc, etc.
I know, I am stupid enough to sit through every sequel of most SciFi/Horror films. :P
Innuendo:
How does that gel with the ending of The Mist ?-4wd (June 27, 2010, 07:29 AM)
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I'm with you, 4wd. I just don't buy it. Otherwise The Forgotten never would have been made. At the end, IIRC, good does not win. The "Big Bad" persists and its crystal clear that good will never win.
There are lots of movies and TV shows where evil wins. I'm thankful for that, watching the good guys win in the end. Every. Single. Time. Well, it gets old.
40hz:
How does that gel with the ending of The Mist ?
While you don't actually get to see the deed done, the killing of the boy is very graphically implied.
-4wd (June 27, 2010, 07:29 AM)
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As I said, you can imply all you want. But you can't show it happening.
The scene in The Happening where the smart-mouthed kid got shot had to be reworked several times before Shyamalan got an OK from the studio's legal department. Note when you see the film that you don't actually see the boy getting hit even though you do get to see his dead body (partially and briefly) afterwards. And even that is so quick it's almost implied.
That's one semi-spoiler in any movie. If there's a lead character kid in the film that's 12 or younger, you just know they're going to make it through the movie no matter what.You can kill off the heroine, her boyfriend, her dog, and her helpless and elderly Mom and Dad. You can even nuke the town where she was born. But that 7-year old kid she picks up along the way is always going to be one of the survivors when the credits finally roll.
I would have put it down as trying to milk more money out of the movie watchers. If they just didn't want to end with evil being triumphant then they could have stopped at Friday the 13th or A nightmare on Elm Street 3: Dream Warriors, (to use your two psycho examples), but they didn't. From that point on it was just greed, IMO. (If you follow the premise of New Nightmare you could actually say that Evil has won - who else would be causing all these crappy sequels to be inflicted upon us?)
Anyone who enjoys the SciFi/Horror genre will go along and see the sequel no matter how bad it is, they'll watch the following sequels in the hope they will be better than the previous, etc, etc, etc.
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Yes. They could have stopped the follow-ons at any time. But only if it left the 'conflict' in an unresolved state where evil hadn't yet been conclusively defeated. They don't greenlight movies where the script calls for human evil to finally, absolutely, and conclusively win.
And if you do know of an exception, please educate me. Because AFAIK - it just doesn't happen.
Note: I wasn't saying that the taboo against human evil triumphant is what drives the creation of sequels. But it does provide the opportunity to make sequels since it keeps most of these films from reaching their logical conclusion.
I mean c'mon... unstoppable killer repeatedly comes back from the dead after he's been hit with everything from a baseball bat to a tactical nuke? By this time you'd figure he's just a force of nature like a tornado - something to avoid as best you can since there's nothing you can really do about it.
One way out would be if the military rounded up Jason and his ilk and transported them over to the Afghan/Pakistan border to hunt for and kill Bin Laden. After Bin Laden was gone, the Pentagon could send in the cruise missiles and possibly even call in a B2 wing to do a follow up cluster bombing run "just to be sure." International threat removed, evil punished, supernatural evil semi-redeemed but still punished, and America saved!
Give it a name like Leatherface Leathernecks or The Texas Chainsaw Detail with Stallone as the commanding general and Dolpf Lundgren as the 'CIA guy.' Hey, dredge up the Cenobites from Barker's Hellraiser franchise while you're at it too. Let Bin Laden plan to unleash them in LA as part of his next terrorist attack...
You can probably see why they don't they let me write these things... ;D
How does that gel with the ending of The Mist ?
-4wd (June 27, 2010, 07:29 AM)
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Note: the following response contains film spoiler. Don't read if you haven't seen The Mist.
SpoilerThe shootings at the end of the film weren't murders. They were mercy killings intended to save his child and the others from a fate worse than death. But even though David ends up shooting them (with their consent) for a noble purpose, he still gets punished. Since killing another is generally considered 'wrong' (especially killing his own child in order to 'spare him') David is punished by his survival - either to face criminal charges; or at the very least, to live with what he has done and the knowledge he was wrong.
The monsters don't qualify for the taboo because they are not human evil.
I'm with you, 4wd. I just don't buy it. Otherwise The Forgotten never would have been made. At the end, IIRC, good does not win. The "Big Bad" persists and its crystal clear that good will never win.-Innuendo (June 27, 2010, 09:26 AM)
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Yet another spoiler laden response on my part... ;)
SpoilerGood does win. The redhead got her child back.
The aliens aren't 'taboo evil' because they aren't human evil. And even so, the evil alien conducting the experiment gets 'punished' by his own people for his experimental failure. He bet his mind control games could sever that strange spiritual link his people observed between a human mother and child.
Well guess what? It couldn't. Human love (and family ties) triumph over heartless advanced alien experimenters and their human government collaborators.
Plus, they're not gone - so there's an implied "to be continued." Sequel anyone?
If evil did triumph over good, Telly and would have lost Sam, never got her memory back, and that would have been that. In real life that's probably what would have happened. And that would have made an incredibly boring movie. Or no movie at all since it's an inevitable conclusion which offers no opportunity for genuine conflict. And without conflict, there is no story to film...
There are lots of movies and TV shows where evil wins. I'm thankful for that, watching the good guys win in the end. Every. Single. Time. Well, it gets old.
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It only gets old when screenwriters can't come up with an original angle on it. But that's why we create fiction rather than just read history. If you want depressing examples of where human evil triumphs, look no further than that - although you might argue that since history is constantly being written and rewritten, it's a never-ending series of stories about the good guys going on to fight another day.
I'm not aware of any movie where human evil triumphs absolutely. There may be films where the bad guys win the conflict, but the protagonists still always wins in terms of spiritual growth, or goes on to fight evil another day- even if its' only by inspiring a new generation with his/her own death.
How 'bout some more titles?
Ain't film appreciation fun? That's why you always want to watch and discuss movies with friends. ;D :Thmbsup:
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