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"The More You Use Google, the More Google Knows about you"

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kartal:
Paul,

Your points are well taken.

In general though I wish that people do not use cliche words like tinfoil, paranoia etc anytime similar topics come up. The issue is neither of those because. Whenever I bring up these issues, my real intention is never about " gosh my privacy has been lost lost, life is worthless" point of view. Individuals have right to choose whatever make them feel good or happy. My intention is always bigger side effects of the issues, because individual themselves, especially those who are happy with the controversial stuff will never question any side effects anyways. It is all about the future and the global side effects. And these concerns should never make me or people like me a tinfoil hat crowd, because we are bringing up issues that are far more serious. And these issues will overcrowd real problems in the future, I am that certain about these. It is serious, and never meant to be just about "your cash card", or "your individual right to privacy".

Here is a quote from B. Franklin,

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
another variant
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

you can find the other variants here
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Benjamin_Franklin

JavaJones:
Franklin's quote is a great one, and often used. The question here is whether "liberty" and "safety" are even involved. If not, the relevance of the quote comes very much into question, and if you rephrase it "Those who would give up essential privacy to purchase a little temporary convenience, deserve neither privacy nor convenience", I'm not sure it rings true as much, nor is as compelling. And perhaps it's the entire issue of conflating privacy with liberty (not the same thing, though related) that is at the root of some of this disagreement.

- Oshyan

wraith808:
And perhaps it's the entire issue of conflating privacy with liberty (not the same thing, though related) that is at the root of some of this disagreement.
-JavaJones (April 12, 2010, 01:26 PM)
--- End quote ---

Agreed whole heartedly, along with the personal understanding of the context of certain words, I think.  Someone said something earlier that I think really rings true- how much privacy one has in this world is really a function of one's belief that their actions/words are private.  Because really, privacy is not a tangible thing anymore in this world of technology IMO.

JavaJones:
Agreed. We also have to take responsibility for the privacy we give up, whether knowingly or unknowingly, of our own free will. If you go on to Google and search for something and it tracks that search and gives you different results next time based on a previous search, it was your choice to use Google, your choice not to read the privacy and data use statements, and your choice not to opt out of said tracking, so even if you didn't know about it, it's still your exercise of free will that is depriving you of privacy. Contrast this with the idea of the government wire tapping your phone, it's a much different thing. There, privacy is being taken away from you, and you have no knowledge, nor possibility of knowledge, and little recourse. So again, we must take responsibility for our own privacy where we have the ability to do so.

The problem is many (most?) people choose to abdicate responsibility yet retain rights to anger over later violations. People who go onto Facebook and post their whole life and then are upset when someone uses that information against them. Sure, Facebook's policies and practices may not be great (I don't use FB much partly because of this), but it's an optional service, and one which you can use in very safe, privacy-ensuring ways. The problem most people are too willfully ignorant (note: not stupid!) to bother ensuring their privacy until it's too late.

- Oshyan

kartal:
Franklin's quote is a great one, and often used. The question here is whether "liberty" and "safety" are even involved. If not, the relevance of the quote comes very much into question, and if you rephrase it "Those who would give up essential privacy to purchase a little temporary convenience, deserve neither privacy nor convenience", I'm not sure it rings true as much, nor is as compelling. And perhaps it's the entire issue of conflating privacy with liberty (not the same thing, though related) that is at the root of some of this disagreement.
- Oshyan
-JavaJones (April 12, 2010, 01:26 PM)
--- End quote ---

Because it is quoted many times does not make it less worthy. It is just a saying not a solution to anything. It has a basic point that can be applied to many concepts. If you do not work hard for it you will never own it truely.

The reason I brought it up is that it has been said by a famous person, since  most people have harder time believing the little people.

I would like to reiterate again, the issue is not personal privacy. Most of the talk here as usual is surrounding around personal privacy. If you want to loose it that is fine by me. Personal privacy is really a small problem in the set of technology related problems.

On the other hand one would never appreciate the real value of personal privacy until your privacy is diminished by law agencies, goverments, corporations etc. If you have never been a victim of these issues it would be harder for you to comprehend what that can bring up.

I do not want to turn the conversation into another issue, I really do not have another agenda regarding healthcare topics. But  just to iterate my point above here is an example. If you have never been somewhat low income, jobless and needed serious health care service, surgery etc, you would not understand why people want universal healthcare. Now the rest of this example is debate for another forum, but what I am trying to say is that all these issues are not just abstract talks, they might at some point affect you, and your life.

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