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Why the aversion to .NET Frameworks?
wraith808:
The hostility towards VB is... probably because the entry barrier is so low. Too many people who shouldn't be programming
-f0dder (November 18, 2010, 04:29 PM)
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There's more to it than that. If that were it, there would be just as much or even more disgust for PHP. It's part of it, but there's more to it than just that. The barrier for PHP is even lower.
-Renegade (November 18, 2010, 05:39 PM)
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The hostility towards VB.NET is the legacy of VB. I'm having to do some work in VB6 right now. And it's positively painful. Especially when you start adding in COM and such.
f0dder:
The hostility towards VB is... probably because the entry barrier is so low. Too many people who shouldn't be programming
-f0dder (November 18, 2010, 04:29 PM)
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There's more to it than that. If that were it, there would be just as much or even more disgust for PHP.-Renegade (November 18, 2010, 05:39 PM)
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There should be! ;) (it's possible to write decent stuff in PHP, but there's ugly stuff in the language, and the standard library is a complete messy hackjob).
It's part of it, but there's more to it than just that. The barrier for PHP is even lower.-Renegade (November 18, 2010, 05:39 PM)
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The barrier for PHP lower? I don't agree. You do need to write a bit of code & HTML to get anywhere with PHP - with VB, you just drag stuff onto a form.
Renegade:
Meh... Dunno. I suppose it's a matter of opinion. You can use an IDE to drag and drop for web development with PHP as well.
I think the web in general offers a lower barrier to entry than other kinds of development. I think that lowers the barrier for PHP as well.
Like here's an HTML page:
--- Code: HTML ---
Just save that with an HTML extension and you have the first step to hello world. And here's hello world in HTML:
--- Code: HTML ---Hello world!
And the super-complex version of hello world:
--- Code: HTML ---<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd"><html> <head> <title> Hello world! </title> </head> <body> <p>Hello world!</p> </body></html>
HTML is basically the lowest barrier to entry. The next logical step from it is CSS, JavaScript, and then a scripting language or server side processing technology like PHP. :)
Now, I think ASP offers a lower barrier than PHP because it's easier, but not really anymore as it's obsolete. The real option is PHP.
Here's hello world in PHP:
--- Code: HTML ---Hello world!
;)
And the complex versions:
--- Code: PHP ---<?php Print "Hello, World!";?>
--- Code: PHP (brief) ---<?php Echo "Hello, World!";?>
--- Code: PHP ---<?php $hello = "Hello";$world = "world!";print "$hello $world";?>
--- Code: PHP ---<?php $hello = "Hello";$world = "world!";echo("$hello $world");?>
And the super complex one! :)
--- Code: PHP ---<?php $hello = "Hello";$world = "world!";print $hello." ".$world;?>
Echo. Print. Man... They just can't make up their minds, can they? :P
(Funny how you can't even get through hello world without issues.)
Mind you, hello world always looks trivial. :)
But, whatever. They're both pretty easy. (I find VB.NET syntax is actually easier than PHP though.)
vlastimil:
For me, the bad experience with the first versions is important. I had expectations and was disappointed on so many fronts. They turned me from a potential fan into a passionate hater. If Ms kept the first two versions internal and released #3, it could have been a different story. This way, we lost a good deal of time working around unintuitive bugs using a system that was supposed to be simpler.
C# really was much closer to VB than to C. I am not talking about syntax, but about the mindset and concepts used. Java syntax is close to C and yet they use a distinctive name. I do not care much about syntax, it is just a first layer of a programming language and one of the less important ones. Look at .net, you can do almost the same with all of the languages.
Do the later C# versions support multiple base classes? I stopped watching.
So, few examples of the bad things in 1.x and/or 2.0. It's been years, so my memory is a bit fuzzy and I lost my net_sucks.ppt I made at the end of that .net project.
* Unfixable random dll-loading deadlock in 1.x mixed assemblies...
* COM -> .net -> COM is a death circle even if your .net objects and COM objects follow the rules...
* Fatal focus problem with controls created internally by the framework on an invisible form. Do not remember the details anymore.
* Watching windows setting changes in a form from within the form via a harmless delegate caused the form and all it referenced never to be collected. 100s of MB of memory leaks...
f0dder:
C# really was much closer to VB than to C. I am not talking about syntax, but about the mindset and concepts used.-vlastimil (November 19, 2010, 10:54 AM)
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Care to explain? I've done C, C++, Java, C# and (tiny amounts of) VB - and I see C# and Java sharing a lot, having C++ legacy... and can't identify VB in C#.
Do the later C# versions support multiple base classes? I stopped watching.-vlastimil (November 19, 2010, 10:54 AM)
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No, it doesn't support Multiple Inheritance, and hopefully won't. For the cases where MI would be sane in C++, you use interfaces (and possibly composition) in modern languages.
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