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Tech News Weekly: Edition 46-09

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40hz:
Although I can understand what you're saying Hertz Man, I can't agree. Whether some total drongo cop has access to the information this tool can present, or only the NSA does, the simple fact is that this information can be gotten.

The fact that the information exists, and can be gotten is what bothers me, not how or by whom it can be retried.

Ehtyar.
-Ehtyar (November 16, 2009, 07:50 PM)
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Hiya Dr. E! :)

 :-[ First up - apologies to all for me being in a snarly mood when I sarcastically referred to the MS forensic package as a "backdoor exploit." (We all know it's not.) Bad choice of words on my part even if I was making a lame-assed joke when I said it.

Onward...

I don't want to get into a huge debate here (let's start a separate thread if anybody feels that need) but I think you might have missed my point just a bit.

- It's not that the information exists or can be gotten.

- It's not about cops, or the NSA, or anybody else in the government.

- It's not about the fact that comparable tools are available form other sources.

It's all about Microsoft providing such tools.

Why this is an issue for me and not for you might have something to do with the differing ways our respective national governments operate.

In the USA, our government has discovered that it can get around its constitutional "checks and balances" by allowing (possibly encouraging) private entities* to perform actions and collect information the government is not allowed to legally collect on it's own.

I can't speak for how things work in Australia. But over here, there's a very real concern when a large company like Microsoft starts providing tools to get around its own security systems without first being required (by law) to do so. Nor is this concern based on simple paranoia or goofball conspiracy theories. The major US Telcos are still under fire for the illegal and warrant-less wiretaps they performed at the request of the federal government under its previous Administration. They were so concerned about the public outrage that they sought immunity from prosecution. And not because they believed they acted within the law. (They openly acknowledged that they knew they didn't.) They argued that because they were acting at the behest of the government - the government alone should be held solely responsible if any laws were broken. Hmmm...sounds a bit like the "Just following orders" defense doesn't it?

So while this story may seem like no big deal to someone outside the US; it remains a very big deal for many within its borders.

But hey! - maybe that's why this story made the tech news over here in the first place?  ;) ;D

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* These run the gamut from banks, credit agencies, ISPs, insurance companies and the telcos; all the way over to the shadowy world of 'gray area' businesses like DynCorp, KBR/Haliburton, and Blackwater Worldwide.

Ehtyar:
In the USA, our government has discovered that it can get around its constitutional "checks and balances" by allowing (possibly encouraging) private entities* to perform actions and collect information the government is not allowed to legally collect on it's own.
-40hz (November 16, 2009, 10:31 PM)
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The moment I read that, I understood. Sorry for the confusion Hertz Man.

I usually read stories I come across involving the telco immunity mess in the states. Were I in your position, that would piss me off.

To be perfectly honest, I don't know what the legal implications are in this country of the government attempting to bypass security systems in software. The cynic in me says that given we're even more of a fascist state than the US, they can do whatever they damn-well please, but the realist in me tells me to check before I shoot my mouth off.

At this point, however, I'm not entirely sure where to check. Given that Australia has a populace that could largely be described more as sheeple than people (as justification for this comment, refer to the general apathy displayed regarding the Great Aussie Firewall), our laws are typically not scrutinized nearly as well as yours. If I manage to determine the status of this in the near future, I'll be sure to let you know.

Ehtyar.

4wd:
To be perfectly honest, I don't know what the legal implications are in this country of the government attempting to bypass security systems in software.-Ehtyar (November 16, 2009, 10:54 PM)
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I would then be hopeful that they, (the government), are then able to be prosecuted under the same laws that prevent us, (the populace), from circumventing software security - the DMCA crap we got foisted with under the supposed FTA.

Under a fair and just legal system this should be the case.......but what country has one of those?

f0dder:
40hz: I understand where you're coming from, and I do find it troublesome that MS is offering a "forensic tool" at all. But from what I've heard, it really isn't anything I can get my titties in a twist over. If they had used backdoors, undocumented APIs, special drivers, or even firewire DMA memory dumps the situation would have been different.

But basically a GUI frontend for already existing tools? Insert big ol' yawning smiley here :)

40hz:
But from what I've heard, it really isn't anything I can get my titties in a twist over.-f0dder (November 17, 2009, 08:39 AM)
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@f0dder- Understood. But again, it's not the what. It's the who and the why that causes me corncern.

If they had used backdoors, undocumented APIs, special drivers, or even firewire DMA memory dumps the situation would have been different.
-f0dder (November 17, 2009, 08:39 AM)
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And what's going to discourage them from eventually doing just that if their present action goes completely unchallenged?  How long do you think it will be before some aparatchik decides there should be a law requiring Microsoft to furnish such tools to The Authorities? Especially now that Microsoft has put the bug in all those clueless little political heads.

Spend some time in the US if you get a chance. It's not called The Land of Dreams for nothing. Over here, our dreams have a funny habit of turning into our realities. And recently, the same can also be said for some of our nightmares.

If I'm stifling a yawn these days, it's probably because I've occasionally lost sleep thinking about some of what's been going down around here. ;D

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