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10 things to do after installing Linux
Ehtyar:
Get a USB adapter with an Atheros chipset and stop being such a jackass blaming Linux for vendor failures. Simple, no?
Ehtyar.
40hz:
Get a USB adapter with an Atheros chipset and stop being such a jackass blaming Linux for vendor failures. Simple, no?
-Ehtyar (October 19, 2009, 07:49 PM)
--- End quote ---
No. Especially not for a newbie. :)
Most manufacturers don't willingly provide information about which chipsets they use. Many vendors also periodically switch chipsets, occasionally doing so within a given product model's lifecycle.
I can't speak for the rest of the World, but in the US, Broadcomm chipsets (which are not at all Linux friendly) make up about 75% of what gets installed or is readily available.
IMHO, the major distros have two basic options for dealing with all the wifi hassles. They either need to figure out a way to resolve their stalemate with the manufacturers over getting workable drivers; or they can "bring the battle to their opponent's doorstep" by manufacturing their own affordable wifi hardware.
I'll bet if Shuttleworth (and some other NIX heavyweights) announced they intended to put some serious money into doing just that, the bulk of the hardware vendors would soon fall in line. Especially if said 'penguin-friendly' NICs also came with drivers for Windows.
Just a thought! 8)
Ehtyar:
Get a USB adapter with an Atheros chipset and stop being such a jackass blaming Linux for vendor failures. Simple, no?
-Ehtyar (October 19, 2009, 07:49 PM)
--- End quote ---
No. Especially not for a newbie. :)
Most manufacturers don't willingly provide information about which chipsets they use. Many vendors also periodically switch chipsets, occasionally doing so within a given product model's lifecycle.
I can't speak for the rest of the World, but in the US, Broadcomm chipsets (which are not at all Linux friendly) make up about 75% of what gets installed or is readily available.
IMHO, the major distros have two basic options for dealing with all the wifi hassles. They either need to figure out a way to resolve their stalemate with the manufacturers over getting workable drivers; or they can "bring the battle to their opponent's doorstep" by manufacturing their own affordable wifi hardware.
I'll bet if Shuttleworth (and some other NIX heavyweights) announced they intended to put some serious money into doing just that, the bulk of the hardware vendors would soon fall in line. Especially if said 'penguin-friendly' NICs also came with drivers for Windows.
Just a thought! 8)
-40hz (October 19, 2009, 09:55 PM)
--- End quote ---
[rant]
This page is the first result in Google for "wireless adapter chipset", give me a break...
My last wireless adapter was a TP-Link w/ an atheros chipset (confirmed at the aforementioned website I might add), which cost me I think $29AU *in* Australian (where prices for just about everything are typically inflated out the wazoo), I really can't see a lack of affordable USB Wi-Fi adapters myself...
[/rant]
Ehtyar.
40hz:
[rant]
This page is the first result in Google for "wireless adapter chipset", give me a break...
My last wireless adapter was a TP-Link w/ an atheros chipset (confirmed at the aforementioned website I might add), which cost me I think $29AU *in* Australian (where prices for just about everything are typically inflated out the wazoo), I really can't see a lack of affordable USB Wi-Fi adapters myself...
[/rant]
Ehtyar.
-Ehtyar (October 20, 2009, 02:36 PM)
--- End quote ---
Yoiks!
Hi Dr. E.
Umm...okay.
[/non-rant:- start] :)
1. I thought we were talking about people were completely new to Linux and coming straight from Windows a moment ago. Many of them wouldn't have a clue about wifi chipset drivers. And most of those wouldn't have the patience or know-how to hack around with them once they did.
2. Every time I participate in one of our local Linux 'install fests,' the single biggest challenge is getting wifi to work reliably even when the right drivers are correctly installed. (And none of us who are assisting are newbies by any stretch.) Maybe it's different where you are. Where I am, it's still an issue. Especially since most people I'm dealing with are doing the install on their old machines.
3. When asked, wifi problems routinely come up as the single biggest showstopper issue for would be Linux adopters. Many people get NIX installed on their laptops only to zap it a week later when they still can't get their wireless NIC to work reliably. So while it may be cathartic to snarl at them, it still remains a barrier to Linux adoption. And that is not the fault of the poor sod who's just trying to install Ubuntu off some LinuxFormat DVD he bought at a bookstore. So until something as basic as wireless connectivity "just works" as the saying goes, it's a Linux problem. Or at least it is if one of our espoused goals is to bring NIX to the masses.
4. Regarding chipset info in general, take a look at the manufacturer's websites and product boxes. Last I looked there was very little (if anything) on the websites - and absolutely nothing on the product boxes - to indicate which chipsets and versions were being used. So while Mr. Heinz's webpage deserves credit for the effort that went into it, it still isn't information that can be readily obtained from the manufacturers.
5. Glad to see things are going so well in Australia. I hope to visit it someday. :-*
[/non-rant:- stop] ;D
:Thmbsup:
Ehtyar:
I'll give you that wireless is far from perfect on Linux, but I think that that, in-and-of itself, is why troubleshooting wireless on Linux is one of the better documented aspects of it.
It takes almost no searching skillz to determine that atheros chipsets are what you want on Linux, and then as I pointed out above you should have little if any trouble finding yourself a wireless adapter. If you can manage it, have a poke around the web to determine if there are any pre-existing issues with your distro regarding that specific adapter (assuming your distro and adapter are popular enough to have likely been used together in the past) and you should be set. (clearly, I'm no proponent of trying to get devices with no foss drivers to work on Linux)
If a newbie can't suffer though issues of this nature, they're in for a world of hurt when something breaks later on (what are they gonna do with a python backtrace when one of the thousand front-ends coded in it inevitably goes bottom-up, for example). My point being, wireless may be a bitch to get going, but I think it's the random nonsensical failures or difficulties that you'll encounter later on (and on an alarmingly frequent basis) that are really the desktop Linux killers.
I suppose my overall point, after re-reading your last post Hertz Man, is that if you're unwilling or unable to spend copious amounts of time searching for solutions to the multitude of issues you'll face as a desktop Linux user, then desktop Linux probably isn't what you're after. Linux just isn't for the elementary computer user. A Linux "beginner" should be a PC user with a few years worth of experience under his/her belt.
Note: I really hate giving the "Linux isn't for you" speech, I've heard it several times myself from some elitist doucherocket it some Linux chatroom who's there to troll, not help, but at some point, with a user lacking a certain level of experience, and/or amount of time, it is simply the case.
Ehtyar.
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