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poor? Pay up!

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cianoc:
<i>Just for example, using a "payday loan" is something poor people do. But do they do it because they're poor? Or are they poor because they make unwise financial decisions such as using a "payday loan" to buy things before they have the money?</i>

a) Its different when you have kids.
b) "By buying things before they have the money" - you're talking about stuff like getting the car you need to commute to your job repaired (can that wait?). Paying doctors bills. Paying for the emergency plumber. New school clothes. An unexpectedly large fuel bill. Poor people have no contingency funds for emergencies, or anything out of the ordinary.

40hz:
Its different when you have kids.
-cianoc (May 22, 2009, 11:03 AM)
--- End quote ---

Truer words were never spoken.

Whole industries have grown up around exploiting a parent's guilt and their desire to do what's best for their children. That sort of thing hurts the middle-class parent. But when it comes to cash strapped parents, it does a lot more than hurt. It also draws blood.

wraith808:
I'm not sure I agree with the general idea of the article.

Just for example, using a "payday loan" is something poor people do. But do they do it because they're poor? Or are they poor because they make unwise financial decisions such as using a "payday loan" to buy things before they have the money?

Being poor is a state of mind. I've been broke (and am broke right now) but I've never been poor.
-Deozaan (May 21, 2009, 11:16 PM)
--- End quote ---

This.  Even when I've been broke, or not so well off, it's been a temporary thing, not a way of life.  Because of that outlook, people have always looked at me as playing on a different field, and to a certain extent it's true.  Though it's a pithy saying, I've found it to be true that even in money matters, your attitude determines your altitude.


<i>Just for example, using a "payday loan" is something poor people do. But do they do it because they're poor? Or are they poor because they make unwise financial decisions such as using a "payday loan" to buy things before they have the money?</i>

a) Its different when you have kids.
b) "By buying things before they have the money" - you're talking about stuff like getting the car you need to commute to your job repaired (can that wait?). Paying doctors bills. Paying for the emergency plumber. New school clothes. An unexpectedly large fuel bill. Poor people have no contingency funds for emergencies, or anything out of the ordinary.
-cianoc (May 22, 2009, 11:03 AM)
--- End quote ---

Been there done that.  Not there anymore.  Is there that much different about me that I'm not there anymore?  It's called sacrifice unnecessary things to pay for the necessary.  We can sacrifice a *lot* more than we do in times of need- it really depends on how much it's *really* worth to you.

Not to say that I'm down on people who are in that situation, just that it's a choice.  And this whole mentality about things are so bad/people are so poor obscures the sight of those who really *are* in dire straits.  Don't mortgage your future to pay for your present is a really good thing to live by.  It took me a while to get it, but having done so, it's really freed me to live way under my means.

Edvard:
Good reply, Wraith808.
I've most often discovered that a positive attitude about the situation usually allows me to make better decisions to overcome it, although I'll confess to identifying quite gravely with most of the sentiments posted here.

In my family, we don't have cable or satellite TV service, the TV has a DVD player and we get our movies and stuff from the library. We don't have cell phones. Our internet is free dial-up (thank you, NoCharge!!) and all the computers that have been in the house have been second hand from my employer (thanks Boss!!).
We have a modest house payment because we bought it relatively inexpensively (and before the house pricing boom) from our landlord who wanted to get out of the renting business, which we refinanced for enough to pay off some bills and pay off the car.
We have some credit card debt from when my wife got quite ill but those accounts are closed and we have negotiated better terms as we pay them down.

Now for the rub...
I have a job. A fairly good job that pays around $1900 USD per month.
Yet I pay the house payment, utility bills, put some gas in the car and a few things in the pantry and my paycheck is gone or more, necessitating an overdraw or "payday loan" and reliance on the generosity of family some weeks.
(I do odd handy-man jobs for the in-laws and they pay whatever they feel like. They're generous, so it's all good.)

In some countries of this crazy world, I am fully aware that I would be considered a ridiculously rich man, and yet here in the fattest country in the world, I feel like I'm barely scraping.

I do not begrudge the rich their privilege, especially if they worked hard to get where they are. Ingrateful heirs and greedy ne'er-do-wells notwithstanding, there is nothing wrong with rewarding hard work and honest effort.
BUT...
The practice of businesses built on taking advantage of the less-than-fortunate seems like some sick kind of Schadenfreude that most in their right mind would find loathsome at best. I would support legislation to regulate and curb these kinds of practices to take away the advantage they cultivate at the expense of those they prey upon.
However I fear the real problem may be multi-headed and equipped with tentacles and therefore difficult to combat and remedy in an entirely practical manner.

*sigh*

wraith808:
I do not begrudge the rich their privilege, especially if they worked hard to get where they are. Ingrateful heirs and greedy ne'er-do-wells notwithstanding, there is nothing wrong with rewarding hard work and honest effort.
BUT...
The practice of businesses built on taking advantage of the less-than-fortunate seems like some sick kind of Schadenfreude that most in their right mind would find loathsome at best. I would support legislation to regulate and curb these kinds of practices to take away the advantage they cultivate at the expense of those they prey upon.
However I fear the real problem may be multi-headed and equipped with tentacles and therefore difficult to combat and remedy in an entirely practical manner.
-Edvard (May 22, 2009, 02:17 PM)
--- End quote ---

I feel like you on this.  I see that risk is the reason that payday loans charge usurious interest, and that they do provide a service that people take advantage of so on that level it makes sense.  But is it right?  If people want to mortgage their future for their present and someone takes advantage of that want, is it our place to let or not let them?

One way sounds almost socialist and the other way predatory.

Almost reminds me of sub-prime lending and we know the way that worked out.

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