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Wolfram Alpha - Impressions On Launch

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mouser:
An an aside: How about someone make us a farr alias to search wolfram alpha?

Eóin:
Mouser, not wanting to really get into a debate, I'm not particularly convinced by his work either. But the 'new kind of science' is about applying cellular automata to the very microscopic; to quantum theory and the most fundamental of the currently know particles.

Down there the world is exclusively random! The predictability of the macroscopic world stems from the idea that the interactions compound the randomness so much that you end up with chances that the 'weirdness' being seen on our scale drops so low as to makes such things unlikely to occur even but once in the lifetime of the entire universe. Though experiments have been devised to make such events observable, and they've succeeded.

My understanding is not that emergent behaviour is new, but that Wolframs research is it's attempt to provide an alternative theory of that world to say String Theory and the other lesser know theories.

mouser:
Ok now you're making me get down my copy of the book from the top shelf :)

But the 'new kind of science' is about applying cellular automata to the very microscopic; to quantum theory and the most fundamental of the currently know particles.
--- End quote ---

I don't think that's a fair statement about the book.  There is one chapter on physics near the end of the book -- i don't view it as the focus of his work.  Go re-read chapter 12 where he wraps up the book and talks about his grand principle.  I think the physics chapter was a throw-away thought experiment.

In fact i am completely unqualified to speak about his speculations on cellular automata physics.  On a gut level, it feels to be like total speculation and hand waving which is likely to be considered trivial by hardcore quantum physics/stringtheory people -- but on the other hand, the basic core bare concept of the very lowest level physics being a CA has some intuitive appeal to me (but again i think his speculations beyond this basic idea seem unfounded), and is a non-trivial assertion worth exploring.

Down there the world is exclusively random!
--- End quote ---


Not to get into a prolonged discussion of an area that i have little expertise -- but i think the point is important enough to make at least one more pass.  The issue isn't whether randomness is a fundamental low-level property -- indeed i find the idea of a deterministic CA generating what appears to be quantum randomness infinitely more appealing at a gut level than the "true" randomness that quantum theory suggests -- and surely so would einstein.  [One of the big holes in my understanding of quantum physics is that i don't understand why quantum physicists are so convinced that the "apparent" randomness isn't the result of a pseudo-random deterministic low level process].

But regardless -- the point i was trying to make might be better explained by differentiating between what i think Wolfram is saying, and what i would say:

* Wolfram: The interesting processes in the world are the result of the emergent interaction of simple rules -- and the key kinds of rules to look at are the super simple ones that lead to essentially-unpredictable super-complex output behaviors.
* Me: The complex behavior we see in the world is generated by the emergent interaction of a very special kind of simple rules -- ones where the macro level behavior is extremely predictable and non-fragile, but also manipulateable (i.e. with important attractor dynamics, saddle-points, etc.).

mouser:
Video of Wolfram himself discussing goals for Wolfram Alpha search engine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TIOH80Qg7Q

Eóin:
I guess I'm somewhat comfortable with the idea that it may all be random, but we do not have an explanation of the level below what we've observed thus far to know for sure it's truly random. It will be interesting to see if these things get explained in our lifetimes. Otherwise I'm inclined to agree with you that his new kind of science isn't all that new.

Anyhoo, not the most on-topic of discussion :)

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