Main Area and Open Discussion > General Software Discussion
What the hell is OpenCandy?
Renegade:
A bit more information here:
Opening Up OpenCandy
I've put more packet analysis there. It only confirms that no "PII" is collected.
app103, following your criteria, pretty much all software is spyware.
Filezilla - I got an update alert that I didn't ask for. Must be spyware! That's just silly!
ProLasso - Alerts me when updates are available. Spyware? Hardly.
Is there any software that uses a network connection that isn't spyware?
I don't think there is. Whether or not an ad is served isn't relevant.
Regarding things like how long is spent on a screen, that's typical stuff that you use to improve the software. It's not "PII".
Try this, start up WireShark then see what's happening in your browser and what the sites you visit are doing.
As for my financial interests and following the money... The payouts aren't that much. It's quite frankly insignificant.
My interests lie in my hatred of the scareware industry. I simply loathe the security sector and the media and their massively irresponsible attitudes.
Just look at the Samsung keylogger fiasco. THAT is what really pisses me off. They're alarmists and they do more harm than good in a lot of cases. Thank god they're not in pest control. They'd be fumigating houses with people in them.
I still have no clue as to how you can maintain that OC is spyware, but other networking software isn't.
OC doesn't send any "PII", so that cannot be a part of the criteria.
Since other software sends and receives non-"PII" information, but presumably isn't spyware, I can really only assume that the real criteria is whether or not you like the software. I just can't see any other reason. If you apply your criteria to other software, then pretty much everything is spyware.
app103:
I never claimed it was PII, and in most of the definitions of spyware that I provided earlier, there is no mention of PII...only mention of spying, collecting information the user doesn't know is going on.
Let's talk about YOUR software for a minute, and how the information gathered by OC is related to it...and what is and isn't spying on a user...
If your software checks for updates and informs the user that one is available, who benefits from any exchange of information related to finding out, that takes place? Does the user directly benefit in any way? Do you benefit in any way? Does it allow you to deliver bug fixes that correct issues that could have a negative effect on the user's experience? Does some unrelated 3rd party benefit the most? Does knowing a new version of the software being available and giving them the opportunity to download it have any possibility of enhancing their enjoyment of your software?
Does the info about how long a user stared at the recommendation screen benefit the user directly in any way? Does it have anything to do with your software they intended to install and their enjoyment of it? Does it help you improve your software? Is it necessary for a 3rd party to know this info for your software to function properly?
How long the recommendation screen was viewable on my computer isn't anybody's business but my own, even when it is collected without PII. When it is collected without my knowledge or consent it's an invasion of my privacy, it's spying. How I choose to launch my software is also my business, whether I do it from some 3rd party download manager that ended up launched on my computer because of OC or I use FARR or the Start Menu, or a desktop shortcut, or if I open the program folder and drag the exe file to my taskbar to make a shortcut. No matter what way I choose to launch it, it's my business...not yours, OC's, or anybody else's. Any attempt to gain access to how I do it, without my knowledge or consent, is spying on me.
Just look at the Samsung keylogger fiasco. THAT is what really pisses me off. They're alarmists and they do more harm than good in a lot of cases. Thank god they're not in pest control. They'd be fumigating houses with people in them.
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So an irresponsible idiot of a writer for a reputable IT site that should have known better, jumped the gun and accused Samsung without checking his facts, based on a false positive, and you are going to get back at the both of them by adding OC to your installers? That makes no sense.
And it doesn't make OC run by saintly angels, either.
I told you, I don't trust them. They keep doing sneaky stuff, getting caught, changing things, getting caught, changing more, go back on their word, blame software authors for the changes...the same crap they did when they were at DivX.
Don't you know...you greedy developers twisted their arm and made them add an opt-out option, even though they are so very ethically opposed to that because they know it creates situations where people end up installing unwanted software.
It was because you greedy developers wanted users to install stuff they didn't want, so you could make more money from it. It's all your fault and had absolutely nothing to do with OC wanting to make more money, because they are the nice benevolent company that only exists to help poor little developers make money. All the VC's that invested big money in them didn't do it for the even bigger profits they hoped to gain, and their desire to make big profits and whatever pressure they put on OC had nothing to do with the changes...that VC money was all a big donation to help freeware and open source authors.
Oh how sweet of them to assign each computer a unique ID, building a profile of what each user accepted, installed, declined, uninstalled, etc, without the user's knowledge or consent, which they blamed on a bug when they got caught and had to change it. And the use of the registry entries like permanent cookies...till they got caught and had to change it.
What are they going to get caught doing next? And are they going to blame you again when it happens?
It's no secret that I have financial problems, no secret that my family is less than a paycheck away from disaster. I am scrambling to make as much money any way I can. I have even thought about using OC...but every time I do, I get sick to my stomach, feeling like I would be a sell-out, selling my users to a bunch of slimeballs, for a few cents each. No matter how tempting it is and how bad I need the money, I just can't bring myself to do it.
wraith808:
^ So... I take it adobe flash is spyware? How about iTunes? Or Java? I could keep naming software- there's quite a few pieces of software that do the same in a benign way, then after the fact inform you that they did and would you like to install this update or that update. Microsoft used to do it with Windows update. Websites do it without ever telling you.
-wraith808 (April 02, 2011, 11:28 PM)
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Bingo!
-app103 (April 02, 2011, 11:45 PM)
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Not quite. By agreeing to the installer, you're agreeing to the EULA. So if you agree to the EULA, then you've already given your 'informed consent' whether you read the EULA or not.
So... I use other DLLs from third-parties in my software sometimes; does that mean that I need to inform you so that you can be made aware of exactly what software I'm using? Where does it end?
--- End quote ---
Do those 3rd party DLLs collect user information and send it out to someone over the internet? If they do, then you should inform the user and get his permission before any information is collected.
-app103 (April 02, 2011, 11:45 PM)
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So even if you agree to the EULA (read it or not) you *still* want another step of approval? Sort of reminds me of the consumer advocates that say that the credit card agreements are too long because no one reads them, but if they are shortened, use the absence of text to attempt to say that the agreement is invalid.
It's no secret that I have financial problems, no secret that my family is less than a paycheck away from disaster. I am scrambling to make as much money any way I can. I have even thought about using OC...but every time I do, I get sick to my stomach, feeling like I would be a sell-out, selling my users to a bunch of slimeballs, for a few cents each. No matter how tempting it is and how bad I need the money, I just can't bring myself to do it.
-app103 (April 03, 2011, 07:23 AM)
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The thing that bothers me is that the situation is no where near as black and white as you make it appear. Your choice is your choice, and your interpretation is your interpretation. But you seem IMO closed to anything that might speak against that narrow view, and use pejoratives where they don't belong (adware, spyware, slimeballs). No one knows their motivations, for good or for bad. Software does have defects, and sometimes people misjudge backlash against actions, and so end up spinning what happens. And sometimes people deceive intentionally. But unlike spyware and adware producers, who just attempt to find ways around any sort of exposure they get to dig deeper into the ground to get away from attention, OC does have an evangelist that does speak to these issues, and apparently gets things done. Why not trust but verify, instead of putting them into the negative category because of possible growing pains? And why, if that's a personal decision, attempt to inflict that on others even in the face of evidence. Renegade put out a challenge above... but none of this really speaks to that challenge. If there is such overwhelming evidence, why not prove it? Especially if this is a black and white issue.
40hz:
@wraith808 - just out of curiosity, are you personally considering using OC?
If you don't mind somebody who goes "back *that* far" asking? ;)
wraith808:
@wraith808 - just out of curiosity, are you personally considering using OC?
If you don't mind somebody who goes "back *that* far" asking? ;)
-40hz (April 03, 2011, 08:49 AM)
--- End quote ---
;)
I hadn't been. I hadn't even considered it until I started following Renegade's experiment. And even now, I doubt I will- I used to write installers for a living, so I try to stay as far away from that as possible, if you hadn't noticed from my software. ;D It's just unzip and run...
(And I don't remember my first mainframe... but I think you might have me beat by a few years. Not many though! :) Though fully qualifying it, I was pretty precocious when it came to computers, and my father being a professor helped to give me unusual access to hardware.)
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