Main Area and Open Discussion > General Software Discussion
What the hell is OpenCandy?
kartal:
Well I gotta say this is all rather above board to me. Ads are everywhere, I see no real difference between an ad in the installer and one on the download page. -Eóin (May 14, 2009, 03:24 AM)
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Well if they like to promote free software, they can start a web page that promotes free applications and they can show whatever ads recommendation they want on the web sites instead of installers. They seem to have manpower, money and ideas to start such thing. But why are they choosing this particular method? Have you thought about it? Do you think they just like public service?
Showing banners, suggestions, installing toolbars via installers is no different than my postman wearing clothes with banners(like those race car drivers) and trying to break into my house to stick some advertisement inside my house everytime he brings my mail. And yes I do have a problem with that. Because an installer can be cryptic and be dangerous there is no way for a simple user to know all the nitty gritties of what is going on behind an installing session.
I also don't quite see Kartals position on installers, if the developer chooses to use OpenCandy even when an archive would have sufficed for distribution then that is the developers choice. I don't see where the issue with OpenCandy. Kartal you seem to be suggesting that that there is something inherently wrong in advertising in general. You also seem to be using the words spam and ads interchangeably which they certainly are not.
-Eóin (May 14, 2009, 03:24 AM)
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Do not get me wrong please but you do not seem to think ahead much here. Right, it is ok for now but I was predicting future. More and more developers might choose these bogus methods to make couple bucks.
Eóin, I try to live an ad free life, to me %98 of ads on the planet are obnoxious and waste of resources in my personal view, And spam is a way of delivering those obnoxious ads. Because ads are everywhere does not make "ads everywhere" a justified issue. Ads are everywhere because many people figured out "bogus" ways to make money, like putting banners on highway, buildings, times square, and noone questioned their acts. You know why economy is in peril? Some people figured out even more bogus ways to make money and no one scrutinized them. And that is I am doing here. If everyone was like you, anyone could get away with anything in year 2009. There is nothing wrong with being critical and asking serious questions about integrity of those who might make benefits from other people`s hard work. I personally do not see OC`s way of benefiting developers is being any more real than those ninja loans that benefitted those who taken those ninja loans(banking failures). In the long run developers will loose their dedicated users.
drapps has given Startup Manager as an example. I uninstalled otherday because it came with OC. I thought that tool was working without an installer. One day I tried to open it and it did not so that forced me to check the website for a new version. That is when I saw the new version with OC.
drapps:
Just out of curiosity, what made the developers decide to use the word "open" as part of the product name? I'm curious since doing so usually makes people think such products are GPL/FOSS applications. -40hz (May 14, 2009, 09:27 AM)
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I wasn't a founder of OpenCandy but I do know that the world "open" was used because our network is open for any developer to use. I'm sure our name also has something to do with how hard it is to name a company these days and get the associated URL.
I'm also a little puzzled by this comment you made:
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@drapps: I didn’t expect to wake up this morning to a Google Alert about OpenCandy being raked over the proverbial coals.
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It seems to me that running an early warning system such as this indicates that there has been serious concern on the part OpenCandy about negative comments to the extent that "Big Brother Google" is being used to seek out and monitor them. I think this says quite a bit about the mindset of the company.
Which leads me to this question: How much negative pushback are you getting with this? Since you're monitoring via Google, I'd guess you'd have some very solid statistics you could share with us on on that topic beyond the usual "overall response has been very positive" PR boilerplate.
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The word I track with Google Alerts is 'opencandy'. They isn't any connotation attached to it (negative or positive).
I use Google Alerts for the same reason anyone (person, company or organization) uses Google Alerts -- to find where the conversation is. It doesn't say anything negative about the mindset of our company or any company (person or organization) to want to be able participate in conversations about them. To me it says something positive -- it says that a company/person/organzation is willing to listen and discuss things openly (as I've done here).
Personally, I know a lot of everyday people who use Google Alerts to watch for mentions of their name or blog. I wouldn't be surprised if Mouser used Google Alerts so that he can know when someone mentions DonationCoder. I also received quite a few Google Alerts yesterday about the TechCrunch post regarding handshaking and how those attending the OpenCandy board of directors meeting didn't shake hands (to prevent spreading germs) and instead did the "fist bump". The handshaking topic was something written about by Michael Arrington of TechCrunch last week.
By the way, I'm not a PR person (by training, nature, or past history). I was chosen by OpenCandy to represent them because once I met with them and understood what they was doing I was really excited about it. You're not going to see or hear me use "boilerplate PR speak". It's just not who I am.
I was wondering, how many people here have seen what an OpenCandy powered recommendation looks like? If you haven't, I'd be happy to post a video on YouTube so you see how recommendations are presented to users.
Dr. Apps
Software Community Guru
OpenCandy
http://twitter.com/drapps
mouser:
If you haven't, I'd be happy to post a video on YouTube
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i think that would be a good idea :up:
drapps:
If you haven't, I'd be happy to post a video on YouTube
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i think that would be a good idea :up:
-mouser (May 14, 2009, 11:36 AM)
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@Mouser
Ok, I'll create one and upload it. I've never actually posted a video on YouTube (don't make fun of me). So it may take me a few more minutes than a YouTube veteran. :)
EDIT: It's going to take me a couple of hours to get a video up since the (Windows) machines in my lab are running Vista SP2 (I'm a TechNet subscriber) and we haven't enabled recommendations to be shown on Vista SP2 machines yet. I'm going to install Vista SP1 in order to get a video made. Stay tuned! :) Sorry.
Dr. Apps
Software Community Guru
OpenCandy
http://twitter.com/drapps
Nod5:
I appreciate that Dr Apps/Andrew took time to make a detailed and friendly case for OpenCandy. You come across as a likeable person that believe that this is something good and take user worries seriously! :Thmbsup:
That said, I am still sceptical (but less so than initially).
1. I still think software using OpenCandy is adware. As I see it, software with enough ad presence in the whole chain of use is adware (chain of use: go to official website -- download software -- install software -- use software -- remove software) Above that level we have degrees. Ads in the GUI all the time means strong adware. OpenCandy is softer adware. That does not make it wrong per se. It might all things considered be a good deal for users. But I am sceptical.
2. Andrew wrote:
Would you rather have another opt-out browser toolbar trying to push it's way onto your system or have a recommendation for a piece of software that a developer you trust (you trust them enough to install their software) loves?
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and:
There isn’t any choice there, if you surf the web that’s the way things are [=privacy intrusive]. And soon, all software installers will be the same way. But this can either be done the right way [...] or the wrong way.
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I don't buy the framing of only two narrow alternatives in either case. There are other, better alternatives. Yes, webpages today get lots of info on their visitors. But that is a problem to solve, not copy to installers.
I think the installer is an especially bad place for ads from the users perspective. When running the installer a user wants to get the software running with as few distractions as possible. It is then easy to by mistake or at least without thinking it through click some ad or install some toolbar, just to get the distraction out of the way. It is a context for less informed or less though through user choices.
Finally, there are clearly already much better platforms for software recommendations from the users perspective: blogs, forums, magazines and so on.
Cheers
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