Main Area and Open Discussion > Living Room
The entitled generation....Are they right?
sgtevmckay:
A couple of more thoughts here, one is relevant, one may not be, but may be part and parcel to the "current" generation, compared to generations past.
I will be 40 in June.
In my life time I have seen glorious and ugly things, our society has all manner of input to satiate appetites wondrous and gross. I have experienced both, as have most I think.
We had done this before the "internet", before the BBC, before Phone chat and party lines, we had done this to, But to what extent compared to today?
I will not tell you we wer right "then", but no one told us we were wrong!
That being said.
I remember a short time ago, before I was officially no longer hip, when there were 4 track, 8 tracks, Reel to reel, LP's, and the tape deck. I remember the days when we would record from the radio, I remember mixing music and recording for friends, I remember when I had never heard about "Copyright infringement". I remember my father recording underground real to reals and loaning them, or giving them, to friends, I remember a time when I could take my Record and record them to tape. I remember a time of high speed dubbing of tape to tape that you could purchased on a "boom box" and cut tapes for friends who had a blank handy, and copy that tape in a few minutes.
What I don't remember is the records companies and their interests complaining then; Just a few short years ago.
That is not to say that they did not, but they didn't sound off very loud.
I think it was in my generation (X ?) that we took off on the concept of recording what we want and disregarding the rest. Certain entertainment hardware made it so simple and easy, and there was no mention of Copyright infringement. There was also no apparent push from entertainment industry to have the companies that readily supplied this hardware to stop making it. I can remember electronic supplier from Koss to Nakamichi had tape to tape and media to media.
Where was the entertainment industry then, why didn't they stop it then?
I remember Beta, VHS, Laser Disc, I remember the TV commercial push that told us "now you can watch TV whenever you have the chance", I remember everyone was thrilled when HBO announced that it was "possible" to record movies and watch them later, I remember my parents recording TV series and loaning them to their friends. I remember dubbing VHS and Beta, I remember recording MTV and then from VHS to tape.
I don't remember the entertainment industry taking a stand then.
I don't remember any body getting busted for mass dubbing until the 90's.
I remember an industry that openly supported what is now called "Piracy", even advertised piracy with out calling it that. I remember an entertainment industry that supported a world of what would be become pirates, and they did so by lack of action, or by letting the various other entertainment industries advertise what you could do with your equipment; We were told we "could" or "should" record, share, trade, make it our own.
it was not until much later that we were told; hey that belongs to me and you can not do as you wish. You did not buy that to own it, you purchased borrowing rights.
I remember the first time I found out that when I bought a CD of software that it was not mine, that I was essentially renting the right to use it, and if the leaser told me to stop using it, I would have to on the spot; regardless that I paid well over $200 for the right to rent. The industry was very clear on its policy of not explaining this to the average individual.
I remember at that point that is when the various interests in the entertainment industry came forward and essentially said; hey wait you can not do that any more.
Again this is not to say that the collective entertainment industry was not doing anything, but rather there was a fundamental difference then. There was separatism in the industry, either by design or lack of action. I grew up in a society that said it was "OK" by a lack of action from the interests that didn't want this to happen. I am certain the reasons are wide and varying.
Anybody is welcome to correct me here at any time.
I remember a time when I would have thought nothing of coping a song for a friend.
I remember a time before there was the term "Internet Piracy"
I remember!
Now all that being said I would now mention the part that you may not think belongs here, but I think it plays a significant part to todays "Entitled Generation"
Again with the memory stuff:
I remember a time when if you were stuck on the side of the road; folks would stop and help. I remember a time that if I was being "bad" down the street I would be punished by the neighbor and then lord help me when I got home. I remember being in a gang, but did so within a community. I remember a world of people that would help one another when they could. I remember a world that was very much like this isolated forum. People used to slowdown and talk. I remember my parents speaking with the neighbors, I remember respect for other individuals. I remember when defensive driving was the standard.
I remember a lot of good things that I do not see today, all though I make sound somewhat Utopian, actually did exist a short while ago.
I have also seen a world where a big truck driver would pull over and help you change a flat tire a few years ago, would just as soon run you over on the side of the road today.
I have seen folks that would have stopped a child from making a really stupid mistake, not reprimand that child for fear of being sued by the parents.
I have seen children undisciplined, because the parents are afraid that the child will go to child services and have the state arrest them.
I have seen these escalate in my life time.
it is not to say that it was not always there, it is to say I have seen this scenarios grow and get out of hand.
My point.
Is the "entitled generation right"?
Yes; if only by the inaction of an industry that did not scream "Foul" earlier and try to regulate their own laws, they fought so hard to obtain.
Let's face it we didn't think we were doing anything wrong, and we were not told otherwise.
By default, and a lack of early intervention, this generation is "Right".
No body told us "No", and I still have some of the equipment that parts of the "Entertainment Industry" sold to the public from back then that would prove the industry openly supported "Piracy"
Is the entertainment industry right?
Yes; and only by laws bought and paid for.
The entertainment industry is acting like they gave us a toy, and 20 or 30 years later is returning and telling us "We want it back" or "we want control of what we gave you so many years ago"
I remember a term for this (as racial as it sounds today), we called these folks "Indian Givers" and they were despised and looked down on.
Should people be reimbursed for their hard work?
this is the only absolute correct answer.
I pay for and support those things I use, whether listed as free, donation, open source what ever you call it there is a fundamental cost to everything.
I am a firm believer that nothing is free!
I believe that the industry is wrong by their on fault.
I believe that the "entitled generation" is wrong by attitude
But if you stop for just a moment and remember it was ok then, and we passed that ok attitude on to the current generation.
and I do not subscribe to; It is never a foul until the referee say's so.
At least not in this instance.
I think that the recording industry should stop and think about all the years that they did nothing, stood by, and watched while other parts of the same industry supported the very piracy the collective industry is bitching about today.
I think that today's generation needs to learn that anything free, may have been distributed freely, but was created at the "expensive" of someones hard work and time, I think today's generation has forgotten, or didn't learn, to respect this fundamental truth.
I think the the "Entitled Generation" is not what it seems. I have seen no age limit on the Entitlement attitude.
Ultimately I seem folks of all ages that have forgotten how to respect.
Respect themselves and others.
I remember being taught/learning respect, personal space, and having to work/fight for my freedoms.
I never remember learning, or believing that I "deserved" anything I didn't work for or support.
I remember!
herneith:
This type of self-entitlement appears to be endemic in other areas of life such as education. The students seem to think they are entitled to good grades for showing up to class and handing in their assignments on time. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/18/education/18college.html?_r=1
Darwin:
This type of self-entitlement appears to be endemic in other areas of life such as education. The students seem to think they are entitled to good grades for showing up to class and handing in their assignments on time. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/18/education/18college.html?_r=1
-herneith (May 04, 2009, 07:28 PM)
--- End quote ---
As a former college instructor, I couldn't agree more... Really, the perception seems to be that merely getting assignments in and writing exams before the end of the school year is all that should be required in order to achieve a good grade. This stems, I think, from what seems to be common in local high schools - endless rewrites of quizzes and exams and the acceptance of assignments up to the end of semester/term. Not a very realistic preparation for the real world and definitely not a good prep for university (unless it's changed since I was a student...)!
wreckedcarzz:
It appears that I am part of the generation that is being discussed here, so I figured I would drop in my own personal examples (both good and bad, but all honest). Before you start reading, please take into consideration that this is what I have seen and done myself, and try to refrain from flaming me because of it. This is just a look into my slice of the world, and how I view it.
This type of self-entitlement appears to be endemic in other areas of life such as education. The students seem to think they are entitled to good grades for showing up to class and handing in their assignments on time. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/18/education/18college.html?_r=1
-herneith (May 04, 2009, 07:28 PM)
--- End quote ---
In my experience, that totally "wouldn't" be because every single one of my high school teachers thus far has said "If you show up in class and turn in [most of] your work, you will pass" or "As long as you show up and turn in your work, you're almost sure to pass" or "As long as you don't sleep, and you turn in your homework and pass the tests with Cs or better, you will pass"...
That isn't an assumption at my high school - it is told to us as fact. Naturally you're going to carry that with you to college/university because you have been told by a certified person, with a degree (!), that you can pass by sitting in your chair and doing the majority of your work.
Uneasy ground (piracy and the like):
In reference to the initial post by Josh, I have no problem admitting that I have downloaded things off the internet that are copyrighted and whatnot (not that I am proud, but at least I don't cower about it), and the FBI probably should have been at my doorstep ages ago (one of the reasons I support free/donationware - gives me a reason to pay without requiring me to [pay or pirate]). My mom even found I pirated "Quantum of Solace" on DVD because it was still in theaters when I somehow was watching it on our HDTV during dinner. However, you look at me versus the other 2,500 kids at my school, and I suddenly become insignificant. Kids left and right use "Kazaa" and "Limewire", "music store hacks" and even "pass-around" methods (someone buys or downloads & burns a disk/flash drive/etc, hands it out in class - it is then spread out via school-provided network drives, flash drives, the computers' C:\ drives, and more). Even the school ITs themselves (in their 20s and 30s) install pirated copies of Windows XP on ALL SCHOOL COMPUTERS. (Proof from my Business Foundations class computer NSFW!)
Seeing as everyone is probably about to jump all over me, I should point out that we (myself, and the people I know) still DO buy software. Lots of kids play World of Warcraft, and buy the expansions + paying for the monthly subscription. Last Friday I overheard two Mac kids in my English class talking about the girl's new "copy of iLife '09 in a bundle with Leopard." In regard to myself, a good example is that I have purchased every copy of Need for Speed I have in my possession (Undercover was not worth it though >:().
That argument likely warrants nothing more than "I have bought ALL my software though - what does SOME mean in comparison?!?!" - While you have a point, there is a saying that my dad uses a lot, and it applies to the topic of downloading/uploading/sharing digital content as well.
Locks keep honest people honest, nothing more
--- End quote ---
If someone has the determination, the skills (or connections, no pun intended :P), and the desire to, they are going to get what they want, at the price they want (even if that price is nothing).
And it is not that I, nor most (not all) of my classmates and friends believe that we are "entitled" to what we may download, copy, and otherwise "obtain" through shaky means, but that we can. For example, if I went and asked a random adult here (30+ for means of example) at DC the question:
If there was a brand new car parked outside a dealership, with the title and all other needed paperwork inside along with the keys, would you take it?
--- End quote ---
I am certain the immediate answer would be "No!"; however, you ask most of those I know that are of driving age (16-mid 20s), and the response makes no difference - it is the guaranteed pause while they coin the idea that counts.
For the technology portion: More security, tighter security, and more laws won't stop people. Only people will stop people. And people won't stop until they can afford their usual real life luxuries, plus their virtual ones, with money to spare. And that doesn't look like it is going to be anytime soon.
:two:
(Let the flame wars commence!)
Grorgy:
Hey Brandon, a better question to the car one perhaps, (it isn't mine, I heard it on the radio, me hearties) is if your friend just bought a brand new car and said "Would you like me to rip you a copy?" your answer may change, or at least give more pause for thought.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version