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Microsoft's Turn-off mode in IE8 not enough, says Opera.

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app103:
(Eudora is an example of an excellent software product (from Qualcomm) that basically closed up development because of the bundling of the mediocre Outlook Express.)
-Steven Avery (March 15, 2009, 09:38 AM)
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Eudora closed up because they didn't take the right approach to marketing their software. It's as simple as that. They didn't know how to compete, and not just compete with Outlook Express. They didn't know how to compete at all. That isn't Microsoft's fault...and it isn't Outlook Express' fault.

Eudora was so bad at marketing that they couldn't sell a thirsty man in a desert a glass of water. That was their problem...not OE. And that is the problem with most companies that complain about Microsoft bundling apps with their OS.

Seems to me that there are other email applications that managed to be much more successful than Eudora, despite not being included with Windows or the fact that Windows came bundled with Outlook Express. Incredimail seems to have found their way onto many more PC's than Eudora. I wonder how they did that when Windows already has Outlook Express.  :tellme:

And I don't think that Outlook Express was the application that ultimately put the nail in the coffin for Eudora. I believe Thunderbird was.

Most of the apps that are included with Windows are starter apps, meant to be replaced. They are not the most feature loaded, fully functional applications that exist. They are very basic and leave plenty of room for developers to write better stuff with more features that users will want to use to replace the basic starter set of applications that Microsoft has provided.

I never once heard Adobe cry because Windows comes with Paint. Or Microsoft ever complain that they couldn't sell copies of Word because they made the mistake of putting Wordpad in Windows, so Eudora claiming they couldn't compete because Windows comes with crappy OE is just plain bull.

I don't recall iTunes being a Microsoft product, but it sure seems to come preinstalled on most brand new Windows based computers. I wonder how it got there. It didn't get there by Microsoft putting it there, that's for sure.

I never once saw a pc that included Eudora, Opera, or a trial version of software from any of the loudest complainers as part of an OEM bundle. And I never hear any of those that did approach the OEM's and get their stuff preinstalled ever complain about any kind of "anti-trust" crap (except Google, who made a deal with Dell to get their desktop search preinstalled, instead of their browser, yet want to complain about IE).

Just be happy that they are only starter apps and Microsoft never went all out and bundled all the software they make into a single product. Although I think if Windows Ultimate came with Office, Visual Studio, and every last one of their other applications & games at a very reasonable price, it would be one heck of a killer package definitely worth upgrading to.

rgdot:
As some of you are alluding to there is something missing in the bigger discussion. The problem is how Microsoft is or at least used to go about doing business, not what it was actually bundling. I fully agree with Josh that bundling (setting aside bloat for the moment) is convenient and for most non-techy users even a life saver. And of course Apple has done just as badly not only in terms of its own browser but iTunes and such too.The issue is how MS was trying to put down others with misinformation and other business tactics.

As far as security goes if a software has two 0-day exploits compared to another having 20 doesn't make the one with less good, it just makes it better. Not a earth shattering difference.

rgdot:
By the way since 9.60 (I hope its not just me or I didn't miss a setting but it certainly didn't use to happen before) on my machine Opera makes itself the default browser when upgrading .
<sarcasm>That's very nice of them</sarcasm>

Sorry for a second post in a row.

Lashiec:
By the way since 9.60 (I hope its not just me or I didn't miss a setting but it certainly didn't use to happen before) on my machine Opera makes itself the default browser when upgrading .
<sarcasm>That's very nice of them</sarcasm>
-rgdot (March 26, 2009, 02:26 PM)
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There's an option during the installation phase to control that, and it's activated by default. I think it was included in 9.64, but you never know.

Dormouse:
It's always asked me if I want to make it the default; well offered me a checkbox anyway.

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