Main Area and Open Discussion > General Software Discussion
Windows editors - do they have to be so bad?
rjbull:
There's an editor I have not heard of before coming up on BDJ in a few days - HippoEDIT
-mwb1100 (April 13, 2009, 12:22 AM)
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The code-folding screenshot, and even the outliner-like features on the Web site, are very reminiscent of Notepad++. Is that just convergent evolution?
rjbull:
Zeus has all these feature: http://www.zeusedit.com
[...]
I am not exactly sure what you mean by a redirection filter?
When the editor runs an external tool it will put in it's own hook to capture the output. If you redirect this output there will be nothing for the editor to capture.
-Jussi Jumppanen (April 14, 2009, 01:30 AM)
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I use lots of DOS and Windows console-mode ports of Unix command-line tools, like sed, awk, tr, comm, etc. These normally work by taking input from STDIN and sending transformed (filtered, I suppose) output to STDOUT. Many editors allow you to define user tools, but they often invoke them by means other than a command shell. If there's no command shell, there's (as I understand it) no access to STDIN/STDOUT and the redirection process, so one can't use tools that operate as filters, at least not at all easily. By contrast, consider TED Notepad. It presumably uses a hidden command shell, because you can define STDIN/STDOUT filters as user tools, mark a block of text, hit the hotkey for that tool, and have the transformed text over-write the existing block. Very convenient.
If you press almost any other key, you lose the marked area and have to start again.
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This is a Windows standard so I suspect that is why most windows editors do this. But in Zeus this is configurable.
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Another piece of Microsoft stupidity that has to be fixed by the aftermarket...
Compare this with WordStar-style editors.
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FWIW Zeus has a WordStar keyboard emulation mode.
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I was aware of this, but I should make it clear I'm not a coder, other than AWK scripts and batch files. The latest version of Zeus is a 10 Mb download - not that out of the way nowadays, but many competent editors are much smaller and presumably faster loading - and costs $USD 69.95. I'm sure one gets what one pays for, but it might be too much for me. On the other hand, if I'd bought it first, maybe I wouldn't be on this quest :-[
f0dder:
STDIN/STDOUT/STDERR work irrespectively of a command shell - when you use win32 CreateProcess, you can override those handles at will. Even GUI processes can use stdin/stdout/stderr, not just console processes.
If you press almost any other key, you lose the marked area and have to start again.
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This is a Windows standard so I suspect that is why most windows editors do this. But in Zeus this is configurable.
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Another piece of Microsoft stupidity that has to be fixed by the aftermarket...
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Dunno if it's stupid, I guess it depends on what you grew up with. Most of the time, with my usage habits, this is a decent enough default. For a serious editor, I prefer also having the option of persistent selection, as well as mark-begin + mark-end.
Jussi Jumppanen:
Many editors allow you to define user tools, but they often invoke them by means other than a command shell. If there's no command shell, there's (as I understand it) no access to STDIN/STDOUT and the redirection process,-rjbull (April 16, 2009, 04:01 AM)
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Zeus runs its tools as a hidden process and captures the STDOUT/STDERR output of the tool to a tool window within the editor. But it does not hook in to the STDIN of the tool so there is no way for the user to talk to the tool from within Zeus.
To get STDIN working from within Zeus requires something like Tee: http://www.zeusedit.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=74
By contrast, consider TED Notepad. It presumably uses a hidden command shell, because you can define STDIN/STDOUT filters as user tools.
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Since TED Notepad hooks in to STDIN I assume that means you can type inside of TED Notepad and that input is sent to the tool. That is nice :Thmbsup:
(You can) mark a block of text, hit the hotkey for that tool, and have the transformed text over-write the existing block. Very convenient.
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It's possible run a tool from within a Zeus script and since scripts can be written in Python, Lua, JavaScript, VBScript, even Tcl, with a bit of scripting it is possible to do almost anything with the tool output.
The latest version of Zeus is a 10 Mb download - not that out of the way nowadays
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Zeus itself is only about 800 kBytes but it ships with 19 other dlls that are about 6 megs in size. But of those 19 dlls only about 3 are essential and in fact reset can even be deleted.
but many competent editors are much smaller and presumably faster loading
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Zeus starts in less than a second and it can open a 15 meg file in about 3 seconds. Normal files open in less than a second to load.
I'm sure one gets what one pays for, but it might be too much for me. On the other hand, if I'd bought it first, maybe I wouldn't be on this quest.
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Zeus costs nothing to try and the trial version is fully functional and runs for 45 days ;)
tide:
Jussi,
While Zeus is a very capable text editor and I do like it a lot, I have one complaint about it. Revisions come infrequently with trivial or barely noticeable improvements and upgrade prices are way out of line with the meager improvements.
I am a registered Zeus user who paid for my last upgrade about four years ago. I would be far happier knowing that my text editor were under continued development and improvement. I would gladly pay for upgrades in that case. As it stands, minor upgrades should be free to registered users.
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