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More Abuses of Technology - Government Surveillance - Computer Confiscation

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CWuestefeld:
Security expert Bruce Schneier offers some advice here:
But the US is not alone. British customs agents search laptops for pornography. And there are reports on the internet of this sort of thing happening at other borders, too. You might not like it, but it's a fact. So how do you protect yourself?
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/05/crossing_border.html
--- End quote ---


I hesitate to inject political content in a technical forum, but I guess the genie's already out of the bottle in this thread...

Being soverign nations they also have a right to determine who and what comes into their country.-Cpilot (May 18, 2008, 07:29 PM)
--- End quote ---

Please define "sovereign nation". Certainly individual people should have sovereign control over their own lives -- I daresay that we all here can agree on that. But what can it mean for a nation to be sovereign? - Particularly in cases where that comes directly in conflict with the sovereignty of the individuals.

Consider the human rights questions we have struggled with for half a century, and continue: rights for blacks and women, gay marriage, reproductive freedom, free speech. We've come to some conclusions here in America, and some arguments go on. But in other parts of the world, other value systems apply. Does your hypothetical sovereign nation have the authority to punish an unmarried woman for taking a taxi ride with a man? May that nation protect itself by limiting its citizens' access to information that might be subversive to the government?

Does America (or the UN, for that matter) have the authority to interfere with those "sovereign nations", to ensure the sovereignty of the individual?

(I don't intend these to be leading questions. There are various philosophies that can be logically supported, but yield differing answers. And it's difficult to be entirely consistent -- certainly, neither of the prevailing political views in America is able to do so.)

kartal:
It sounds like mankind has just wasted last 300 years of path to democracy. It is also sad to see that some people would be blindly happy to bring middle ages back in the name of freedom and soverign nation concept.

Btw we are not talking about "search", we are talking about confiscating people`s laptops and their content. So I think that that was another spin.

The problem with downloading content of the laptop is that the content is digital so it can be copied-modified multiple times. It is not like  border agent takes your passport and runs couple of checks and gives it back to you. Maybe you do not see any problem but some of us have project files (copyrighted material), files that are under ndas and contents that are protected by laws. It would be illegal for anyone to let another person to see those files related to company financial details or project details etc. But it sounds like you are ok with goverment fascisming regarding this matter. 

This matter is can of worms that is why it should be regulated properly(maybe even by an international body). You cannot just let some border agent to stop anyone they want and download their laptop data.

Deozaan:
Cpilot: You seem to be making false assumptions and selectively choosing what to acknowledge.

The attack on September 11th, 2001 was and is a tragedy, and yet it has nothing to do with the current discussion, other than perhaps being indirectly, partly responsible for some of these laws being passed.

I don't have a problem with a government controlling who crosses it's borders. I very much encourage it. In fact, I wish the government did a better job controlling who got through. There are numerous problems with the current border control in the USA, with most of the focus being on the southern border. But the northern border is probably just as much or more of a problem.

However, I very strongly oppose the idea that an innocent person can have their privacy and freedom violated without due cause.

The constitution guarantees certain freedoms and liberties to U.S. citizens that are now being violated freely all while raising the banner of national security. It seems to me just a modern Witch Hunt. The last remarkable one I know of being McCarthyism. Now be sure to read this next part carefully! I am aware that there really is a terrorist threat! I am not suggesting that terrorism isn't real or that there is no need for security measures. I am a U.S. Citizen. It was my country that was attacked in 2001!

Having nothing to hide from the government (or others) doesn't mean you want to volunteer the information to whoever wants to see it.

There is no innate human right to take anything you please anywhere in the world.
--- End quote ---

This is true. There are import and export laws that prohibit certain things from entering or leaving a country. Also, different countries deem different items as illegal. So while certain drugs in the USA may be illegal, another country might have no problem with those items being in someone's possession. As such, I wouldn't dream of taking an item into a country in which it is illegal.

But until Laptops, MP3 players, and other personal/consumer electronics are outlawed, I have every right (according to the sovereign nation's laws) to bring them with me wherever it's not illegal.

Cpilot:
It sounds like mankind has just wasted last 300 years of path to democracy. It is also sad to see that some people would be blindly happy to bring middle ages back in the name of freedom and soverign nation concept.

-kartal (May 18, 2008, 08:50 PM)
--- End quote ---
Geez
For the umpteenth time, the United States is not a democracy, it's a representative republic. Hence the reason we have congress critters, senators and the electoral college.
We elect people to represent us and do what is best to secure the nation and oversee the needs of the citizens.
If we don't like it we elect someone else to do the job.
Btw we are not talking about "search", we are talking about confiscating people`s laptops and their content. So I think that that was another spin.

--- End quote ---
So I suppose it's a grievous human rights violation to confiscate that piece of fruit or bottles of liquor that are in your luggage too?

Who's doing the spin?

kartal:
I was not just talking about Usa. There are 6 billion other people and numerous nations on earth. Once these practices become a norm around the globe then you will see what I mean. Since you are an american citizen you think that you are immune from those practices which is fine. I hope that one day you wont find yourself in an embarrassing situation in another country.

I think that Deozaan has already answered your second question. On the other hand comparing  confiscation of personal-business financial-project data to confiscation of a bottle of liquor is utter craziness I would say.

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