Other Software > Found Deals and Discounts
PowerCmd on Bits du Jour
Perry Mowbray:
I'd like to strongly disagree >:(
Most vitamins sold in grocery stores have not been proven to do anything but people still buy them.
-trialpay (May 01, 2008, 12:49 AM)
--- End quote ---
This is nowhere near accurate: the main benefit is by moving money from the customer's bank account to the manufacturer's bank account by way of the merchant's bank account which trims a little bit of the profit off, and thereby keeps the economy moving.
:D Sorry: couldn't let that one pass without some light-hearted clarification.
Steven Avery:
Hi Alex,
The real analogy goes like this. If a natural food store bakes some food and uses asparatane/nutrasweet/equal or saccharin (rogue sweeteners, very harmful by natural food standands) then I and others will stop using that store fully. If they use molasses, or even sucanat or stevia or agave syrup, there is no conceptual problem, whether I like those sweeteners or not. They can still get my business (I recently had to check up sucanat precisely because of this type of concern).
Another real analogy is the Google rogue-software ads problem. I have written to companies telling them of this problem and they have responded acknowledging the concern. (There are a number of potential solutions.) And consider not using sites that allow themselves to be conduits of such rogueware ads simply for lucre. Especially if they are indicating the integrity of material on their websites. (Also Google directly needs to be addressed by a group of reputable software concerns and websites, if that has not yet happened.). The immediate person responsible is the one carrying the ads. If they claim to be an integrity software outfit can they carry rogue software ads ? Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter? (James 3:11).
As one person wrote about Trialpay.
"... and if these large companies trust TrialPay enough to associate their names with it, I would say you can rest assure it's not a scam."
When some of the TrialPay products are scams, the whole situation of trust breaks down. I am pretty sure that you vette out the offers carefully. If one is deceptive (e.g. it sounds free but your credit card will be surreptiously billed every quarter for years, hoping not to be noticed, and it will be very hard to reverse) hopefully you do not take the offer. (Now I have to wonder on the other end as well, seeing your what-me-worry response above.)
In fact you even place an emphasis on :
"Premier Partners".
"Premier partners" to market scoundrel software ?
"a web of business relationships"
working together to get rogueware on our computer systems ?
However, your blindness to rogue software, as expressed above, is the same problem in reverse. Oh, I see now that gambling software and screensavers are becoming significant Trialpay players. I do not know those products as well as the registry cleaner and spyware-remover shenanigans (thanks spywarewarrior.com for exposing companies, even at risk of their efforts against you) however they are known to be areas that attract deceptive software that contains hooks not apparent when first installed or purchased.
In your response you essentially have acknowledged the problem. Apparently even if a software installs a rootkit, to you it is not your concern in advance. Take the merchant on, like Visa, and then later if there is a problem you can drop the merchant.
Some reasons this is not simply Visa are:
a) You are creating a three-way tie-in. A software vendor (usually), a commercial offer and Trialpay. If one product is deceptive and harmful of the three, all are marked black.
b) Rogue vendors can craftily see Trialpay as a way to get their rogue products into many hands, where they can do a lot of harm. The Trialpay linkage gives the unknown product cachet, a linkage with reputable products. Much like they would like to get on Snapfiles or Fileforum or MajorGeeks (three major software forums known for policing and integrity in listings, which is why I download there) but they are rebuffed if they try. There is a presumption of honesty in your process, how could Boca Coffee or the Economist be linked with rogues ?
c) Trialpay can be part and parcel of actually creating the rogue market. (With or without Google ads as another accomplice.). The product itself emphasizes "free, what do you have to lose, give us at try". Then it can get in and do its dastardly work. Oftentimes these products will have no market and no demand without the accomplices. No reputable company has ever given them an ok. Then they found Trialpay.
I could go on, but that is enough.
btw, many of us do not shop at 'vitamin stores' precisely because they do not have a natural food emphasis first. (And some catering to the body-builders got tainted as steroid-product-type pushers as well in the not-so-distant past.) And if a store sells rogue vitamins (e.g. misrepresented, or harmful fillers) then we will not shop at that store at all. Integrity first. A natural food store that is not a watchman is largely worthless. That is also why I tend to use Queens Health Emporium or Dr. B. Well or Rising Tide (three of my better local stores) or even Whole Foods rather than the health food sections in supermarket. They have a level of accountability and their views are respected, viewing foods with integrity. btw, I buy products like Floradix and Natureworks European tonics like herbal iron at such stores, and green plant powders like E3Live (frozen), and to varying degrees their 'vitamin' sections largely emphasize such excellent products rather than your garden-variety C and B complex. Which I agree can be overused and under-assimilated.
btw, your echinacea attempted analogy makes me question your companies integrity that much more.
http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/echinacea-000239.htm
University of Maryland Medical Center
"Several laboratory and animal studies suggest that echinacea contains active substances that enhance the activity of the immune system, relieve pain, reduce inflammation, and have hormonal, antiviral, and antioxidant effects."
Perhaps you work for a pharmaceutical company in your day job.
Shalom,
Steven
Carol Haynes:
I have got a few bits and pieces via Trial Pay and have had no problems (and thanks Alex for posting here).
Whilst I can understand that people could be concerned when they perceive there has been a lack of vetting I am not sure that TrialPay's problem. At the end of the day it is up to the customer to decide what they want to purchase.
You could argue that many online retailers stock dubious products but at the end of the day it is the customer's responsibility to make sure the product they buy does what they want in a way that they want.
Using your argument you could argue that no registry cleaners should be sold by anyone because there is no proven benefit and loads of proven negatives associated with all of these products - including those from reputable companies.
For example, Amazon sells internet security software products from a number of from well known companies, of these products are bundled by system manufacturers too. A lot of people here would argue are at best poor quality and at worst a scam (and they certainly don't provide the protection they claim whilst dragging your system to a standstill) - does that mean Amazon is wicked? If so then practically all websellers would be off limits!
Steven Avery:
you could argue that no registry cleaners should be sold by anyone because there is no proven benefit and loads of proven negatives associated with all of these products - including those from reputable companies.-Carol Haynes
--- End quote ---
The question of benefit is debated. There is no debate on rogueware.
Many people do believe that eliminating unnecessary entries can be beneficial. However, any site that recommends a registry cleaner without caution (e.g. back up the registry, use conservative settings, check every deletion yourself) I would avoid. Many systems get Op-Sys trashed, one of mine several years back. (I still have the disk ready to be made a slave and copied over.)
Even more so if they are profiting from the sale, as is Trialpay, rather than just giving bad advice in ignorance.
For example, Amazon sells internet security software products... poor quality and at worst a scam -Carol Haynes
--- End quote ---
This is one reason why I have never bought software from Amazon, and I have a greater concern with Trialpay, since they can actively bring positive attention to companies that would be avoided by every integrity-software concern, including DonationCoder, MajorGeeks, Snapfiles and Fileforum. People know Amazon is just a merchant, while Trialpay claims:
"Premier Partners".
"a web of business relationships"
Personally, I would not want to partner with any scoundrels.
Shalom,
Steven
Steven Avery:
Hi Folks,
One more point.
The dubious registry products have jumped at the chance to look legitimate and
increase their activities using Trialpay.
Here are some products names that are using Trialpay. There may be more, as
these types of products operate in a murky realm.
Dubious
CleanMyPC
Registry Repair Pro
Registry Technician
TweakNow RegCleaner
Advanced Registry Optimizer (Sammsoft - reviews on File Forum, discussion on Security Stronghold)
Legit
Advanced Windows Care Professional - Iobit
Wise Registry Cleaner
Registry First Aid - Rose City
There was a Registry Cleaner that may not have been Eusings that seems to have
had a run as well, but no more. Hard to tell. Maybe Andy can tell use on that,
or any vetting at all, or responses, on the five above.
If anyone has had good experiences with the five I mark as "dubious", please share away.
Even if you have seen a real review from a reputable source (the top-ten-reviews site
is not reputable).
Caveat emptor.
Shalom,
Steven
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