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End-user problems with Artplus Software

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tide:
I respectfully disagree with artplus regarding the existence of this forum. As one who has invested heavily in shareware and commercial software, I think it is important to have a place where we can discuss the occasional irresponsible developer who operates in a misleading manner, refuses to fix problems, is completely unresponsive or treats customers disrespectfully.

Yes, it is a problem when a customer, a shill or a competing entity attempts to use this venue to badmouth an undeserving vendor but those are usually easy to recognize and an effort should be taken to cull them out. Perhaps a few ground rules would be in order such as verifiability of the claims made.

In any case, don't take this forum away!

vradmilovic:
+1 vote to keep this board alive. The donationcoder.com community is really great and there are no flame wars as they exist in other forums (at least that I'm aware of). As a developer, I find great value in it to hear user's opinions and, even if they are not directed directly to my company, I can learn what gets customers unhappy and try not to repeat same mistakes.

However, Neven is right, maybe it would be fair and much more interesting if companies are automatically notified so they can take an action and respond (or not to respond, which gives valuable information, too)? Simple mandatory "Company e-mail" field would be enough.

In this particular case, while I was reading initial post of this topic, I thought that it was slightly overreacted, although I can understand why (doublewitt, don't get me wrong). It's important to understand that any company has a right to choose to prolong or completely cease development if they decide so, as long as they don't advisedly make explicit promises in order to gain a clear benefit, which wasn't the case here I believe. The reasons can be various: temporary assigning resources to another projects, deciding that further development is not profitable anymore, etc. This is a business decision that can't be made outside of the company.

Za kraj, Nevene, pozdrav iz Novog Sada. :)

artplus:
Hi All,

I think I have to explain my position on existence of this forum as everyone here feels as if I WANT it removed. Well, I don't. Or rather, I don't care. Namely, I didn't ask Mouser to remove the forum, not even this particular topic. Hell, I even gave it some more life by starting a debate with Dale (Doublewitt). I doubt this would go any further if I wouldn't have intervened. Art Plus is not a Microsoft that would attract a zillion posters join, right? Unfortunately... sigh...  :-[

No, what I meant to say was that the things got "ugly" before my intervention. So, I'm not ready to accept the blame for what's going on. Everyone who posts here and moderators and owners of the site before them should all take the blame. That's all. Now, if it's okay for everyone to continue posting here, I just honestly believe there is no reason for me not to.

I don't really think this is some problematic forum! There are many places around similar to this one where people can post their opinion and we all know that not all "opinions" are really just that. I also think that you can't blame a kitchen knife manufacturer if someone get's the knife and uses it to kill someone. In this case the forum is only the "knife". People can slice a bread with it ot... stab someone... (in the back... sorry Dale... couldn't resist it  :-[ )

So no, I'm not asking Mouser to remove the forum. It does have potential pitfalls but... I'm not going to press that.

However, Neven is right, maybe it would be fair and much more interesting if companies are automatically notified so they can take an action and respond (or not to respond, which gives valuable information, too)? Simple mandatory "Company e-mail" field would be enough.-vradmilovic (December 16, 2007, 03:40 AM)
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Depends... this option could also be a trigger for some people to actually "pick fight" with a company so... more trouble for the moderator again.

In this particular case, while I was reading initial post of this topic, I thought that it was slightly overreacted, although I can understand why (doublewitt, don't get me wrong). It's important to understand that any company has a right to choose to prolong or completely cease development if they decide so, as long as they don't advisedly make explicit promises in order to gain a clear benefit, which wasn't the case here I believe. The reasons can be various: temporary assigning resources to another projects, deciding that further development is not profitable anymore, etc. This is a business decision that can't be made outside of the company.-vradmilovic (December 16, 2007, 03:40 AM)
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I wouldn't have put it better myself!

Except... EasyNoter still IS profitable and, as Dale will remember (but no longer believes in it which I can understand), we DID and DO plan to upgrade it (rather then just update). Only problem is, we've been postponing it for long time as there was no immediate benefit for us to push the release while on the other hand we DID have immediate benefits working on other projects.

Yes, EasyNoter is probably not the best software around for some specific purposes but it DOES the job and people are still buying it as is! Dale is no longer happy... Okay, photography is my hobby... when I was no longer happy with my first Olympus DSLR camera I purchased Canon. I didn't ask Olympus to create a new camera for me... and then they released a New camera but alas... it was too late for me.

Why would it be different for software?

Za kraj, Nevene, pozdrav iz Novog Sada. :)-vradmilovic (December 16, 2007, 03:40 AM)
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Hi Vradmilovic  :)

But, don't confuse people. Now they'll think you're defending my case cause you're from Croatia too...  ;D

Nope folks... he's not from Croatia. He just shares my views as he does the language (to some point... for both)  :Thmbsup:

vradmilovic:
Except... EasyNoter still IS profitable-artplus (December 16, 2007, 04:28 AM)
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Sorry if I wasn't clear - I didn't mean to imply that your software is not profitable: you said that you had OEM/VAR contracts and other projects that postponed development, and this is something that we experienced ourselves with Agenda At Once. We had comments on our forums similar to doublewitt's, but despite what some people could think, we never delete them - rather trying to explain the situation.

But, don't confuse people. Now they'll think you're defending my case cause you're from Croatia too...  ;D
Nope folks... he's not from Croatia. He just shares my views as he does the language (to some point... for both)  :Thmbsup:-artplus (December 16, 2007, 04:28 AM)
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That's right, of course. Sorry once again if my regards in non-English caused a confusion. :)

artplus:
Dale, without any personal attack, I'd like to ask you few, I think, legitimate questions:

This company Artplus Software, offers some nice applications as promotional tools for business marketing. Their marketing tools are "catchy"-doublewitt (December 15, 2007, 07:37 AM)
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Thanks. 

And so the software seems good at first - but - when you realize that this promotional tool produces aggravating frustrations in your client base -doublewitt (December 15, 2007, 07:37 AM)
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Could you elaborate the above quote? What frustrations?

They get a gift that's much more appealing and useful then say some silly screen saver. And it's a gift! So where's the frustration. Not everyone is always on the run to get the newest and the latest in tech. Not everyone test everything to see if there's something missing or not. Most of the people get software, see if they can use it and if they can they do, if they don't they ditch it... that's life of a piece of software.

I noticed that you often fall in love with a product but after a while turn back against it... for instance GemX too. You used to endorse it wholeheartedly but on this forum again, you've turned the page and posted opinions about it similar to those about Art Plus. In case of GemX it's even worst. You endorsed it in April this year... turned against the developer in September (this year both).

You're obviously closely watching every piece of software you get. Which is fine, but you must understand that not all people are that vigilant nor do they require the same functionality like you.


There are many bugs and fixes needed but there is no development. There are some serious issues that are simply ignored by the developer and sales people.
-doublewitt (December 15, 2007, 07:37 AM)
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What serious issues?

Mind you, what you THINK is a serious issue may not be so for all the users of the software... anyway, please tell me what are you talking about?

But watch out for the END USERS who fall victim to this sour promotional tool that delivers no support.
-doublewitt (December 15, 2007, 07:37 AM)
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Okay... let me quote what you've said few lines latter in your post:

I sent them countless emails that are answered in due time-doublewitt (December 15, 2007, 07:37 AM)
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So how can you say that there is no support after stating that?

I've spent nearly $200.00 in purchases for their softwares that are NEVER updated. So if you think that your clients will enjoy using software like easynoter with absolutely no support-doublewitt (December 15, 2007, 07:37 AM)
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Yes, you've spent some $200 on our products in about a year and a half span. From March 2002 to November 2003 to be exact. Thanks.

But only program that was not upGRADED (with MAJOR version update) since that time was EasyNoter (that was updated from 3.0 to 3.7). MemoGame builder has been updated (got a GOM status for a while but was in the meantime removed from distribution), Calendar Designer went from 1.0 to 2, Wallpaper Calendar from 4.0 to 5.0 (with 6 around the corner) and Gift-O-Mat from 1.0 to 2.0 and from simple Lite to Lite+ and STD+ (the later was recently remover from distribution). Also, we promptly issue updates that could actually cause any problems to end user, like XP and Vista patches.

Out of the programs that you didn't buy, we released three versions of Digital Photo Recovery and five of xTerminator anti spam. The latest of both were released this month.

By the way, those programs that were removed from distribution are removed because we decided to offer customization as a service rather then sell the tools for few bucks. Same tools are still available to our partners that get it for free and use it to run a business based on them paying us royalties. Those GOM's were actually creating a competition to our partners and were removed due to that.

So... while you obviously haven't noticed, there has been pretty lively at Art Plus those past few years. Just maybe not in a way that you would prefer.

you're headed for trouble...and your clients too... because when they use the "promotional" tools, they eventually opt for PRO versions
-doublewitt (December 15, 2007, 07:37 AM)
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Not so! This may be so if you would be using OLD FREE version of GOM Lite or current SkinGenerator Xtra that indeed bundle our own Lite version just with your skin design. However, those versions are strictly for personal and noncommercial use so...

Regular GOM's with commercial license create a packages with EasyNoter Lite or STD but without any mention about PRO version upgrade path to purchase. YES, it DOES contain our company name and link in About box as we ARE original concept developers and Copyright and Trademark holders. That's our right and obligation to display on a usual place, in About box. Anyway, I don't remember you ever complained about that...

You can use the promotional tools to distribute an unlimited number of copies of easynoter lite which of course, is feature disabled or limited.
-doublewitt (December 15, 2007, 07:37 AM)
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No. That is NOT correct!

When you say software is feature disabled that means some link or button, when clicked, will instead of an expected function display a message stating something like... "buy and upgrade to get this".

This does not happen even in our regular free version and most certainly doesn't happen in  EasyNoter Lite/STD created by our GOM series for commercial use.

I hope no one sees this post as being a personal attack. I'm merely using an opportunity to get more information and, if you wish, defend our products from allegations that I find unfounded.

Cheers,

Neven

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