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End-user problems with Artplus Software
artplus:
Well, sorry for your response... it lacks a lot of class. To clear things up, and first of all, reporting about companies who leave users with their problems and refuse to develop their softwares is not a slander and it's not a lie. Your reaction is out-of-swing. easynoter has been sitting on the shelf for years and I know plenty who have left it completely as you have left them... when I purchased easynoter, I was told that it was under development - that is an engagement - a form of promise - or maybe we shouldn't take you seriously when you speak. Basically, and truthfully, when we purchase software, we inquire for future projections and rely on your word which is like the shifting sands...
I was expecting a much more classy response...
-doublewitt (December 15, 2007, 12:39 PM)
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Hey, Dale... It really is you! :D
It was a long shot but I guessed right :D
Classy?
Dale? After 50 or so messages, VERY friendly where I actually shared some insiders information with you and considered you ALMOST a friend, you turn against me by posting things like this around? Mind you that I had only about two or three bad messages from you and that you actually decided to apologize for it later... I thought I understood. And now this?
And yes, it is a lie and a slander because you said that we made a promise at purchase! That's simply not the fact!
All that I ever said about our plans was a friendly chat about plans and expectations. Not promises and all that WELL after the purchase! Actually, you purchased five of our products and got some gifts aside. You of all the people!? I think I understand your feelings and disappointment with our work lately, but you should also know that I see your actions like a stab in a back!
doublewitt:
Well, I can only say that you are taking my words out-of-context...
A stab-in-the-back... not at all... I think your attitude is off by a longshot...
Also, concerning this thread, mentioning your name here as far as I'm concerned is normal, you are the guy responsible for public relations for Artplus... your name is on several pages on your website, everybody can see that in a couple of clicks. And anybody dealing with Artplus in the past knows you anyways... nobody else answered those emails - so it's no big revelation.
It's too bad, Neven, cause I invested in your work as I believed in it, and I went out-of-my-way to express how I appreciated your talent. You are a gifted programmer. But, easynoter is still on the shelf! A little tweak for XP, and then Vista (that nobody wants) doesn't really balance on the scale. Fair is fair, I wrote often expressing my frustrations and you basically didn't care and so, that's why this issue is here today. You won't have me believe that I'm the only rooster in town!
Maybe you can move away from the personal offense attitude and realize that you are representing a company - that's what counts the most. This is not a personal conflict debate, but rather, this is a company issue... let's keep things in line.
ALSO, you are very much out-of-line trying to reveal private email info publicly and also twisting it's sense and meaning... a very ill practice indeed...
Perhaps, you can start to use this thread as an "opportunity" to win more clients instead of pushing conflict - and that I won't get involved in...
artplus:
It's too bad, Neven, cause I invested in your work as I believed in it, and I went out-of-my-way to express how I appreciated your talent. You are a gifted programmer.-doublewitt (December 15, 2007, 01:47 PM)
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Thanks. But I'm not a programmer. I'm involved with the program creation, yes, but mostly from design and marketing point of view. Collecting users feedback and translating wishes into design or functionality changes (when possible).
But, easynoter is still on the shelf! A little tweak for XP, and then Vista (that nobody wants) doesn't really balance on the scale. Fair is fair, I wrote often expressing my frustrations and you basically didn't care and so, that's why this issue is here today.-doublewitt (December 15, 2007, 01:47 PM)
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Yes, you wrote asking about updates frequently. Frustrated? Once! And then you apologized. For me that was EOD and we went on with few more support related inquiries of yours. That was about a year ago. Haven't heard from your since... and was "lucky" enough to notice your today's post...
You won't have me believe that I'm the only rooster in town! -doublewitt (December 15, 2007, 01:47 PM)
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Of course not. We don't have three or four users you know. And if you have a lot of people using your software you get a lot of complaints (as well as praises). But I did recognize you. Didn't I? And you're not signed in with your name,nor is your address visible. All I knew is what you've said here and have found out that you're a Canadian. Bingo! Your year old angry post came to mind instantly because we really don't have many of those, AND because your angry message (then) came as a surprise as I already remembered you as a "friend"!
We do get occasional complaint, but this people come and go, I never remember their name. Also, I don't remember any complaints about us not updating our software. For that, you're really unique. It's as if we've sold you a license with lifetime free upgrades. Well, we don't do that. We sell it as-is. Upgrades are sold separately as is. It's truth that version 3 has been around for a long time but it did came to 3 from somewhere... 3.7 to be exact...
Since we're selling upgrades too, it's in our best interest to release upgrades occasionally but as you know (from our private correspondence) we had some OEM/VAR orders in the past that we couldn't passed because... we'll it's our bread and butter just as much (if not more) as is end user software development.
Maybe you can move away from the personal offense attitude and realize that you are representing a company - that's what counts the most. This is not a personal conflict debate, but rather, this is a company issue... let's keep things in line.-doublewitt (December 15, 2007, 01:47 PM)
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Well... since we really had a "fruitful" and almost private correspondence in the past few years (I believe it goes waaay back to 2002...) I did find your posts as a personal attack of a sort.
Perhaps, you can start to use this thread as an "opportunity" to win more clients instead of pushing conflict - and that I won't get involved in...
-doublewitt (December 15, 2007, 01:47 PM)
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I don't need the conflict either... I just wanted to respond since I noticed this is a fresh post and I haven't heard from you for more then a year. I've said what I felt like saying so we can drop it as is...
mouser:
I'm not sure how to respond to this thread..
It got personal and ugly quickly..
Both sides clearly feel mistreated and like they have to defend themselves against what they see as unfair behavior from the other.
We try hard to be a place where both end users and software developers can communicate, so there is bound to be some tension occasionally where there is a feeling that one party has wronged another.
I can only remind people that we really try to keep things civil here and encourage people to take the high road at all times. And when everyone has had their say try to refrain from piling on -- we have intelligent readers here who can will read all points of view and make an intelligent decision about what the arguments mean for them.
artplus:
I'm not sure how to respond to this thread..
It got personal and ugly quickly..
-mouser (December 15, 2007, 04:07 PM)
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Hi Mouser,
I don't think things could escalate any more as I know Dale well enough and I know there are lines he will not cross. Also, I said what I thought I should say so I don't feel the need to "pile" more either.
I'd like to post a comment to you as an admin though. You may think that the things got ugly after I joined the discussion but I think it got ugly before that. It got ugly even before Dale's initial post on this particular topic. I think it got ugly the moment you decided to open a forum topic for company complaints. I know this may look appealing (I used to be the publisher myself, Byte Croatia as McGraw-Hill's Byte USA, Licensee some 15 years ago) but it's actually quite ugly and unfair to offer such an option at all. Namely, just like path to the Hell that's paved with good intentions, this option too usually gets abused by loose canons. And I don't mean people like Dale (who, as I know, really spoke his thoughts), but sometimes also by malicious people that simply use such forums to slander competition. Not to mention the fact that you're allowing only one side of the story to be heard. Now THAT I call ugly!
My 2c
Best,
Neven
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