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The worst thing about Macs
Darwin:
Thanks for clarifying that for me, nontroppo. I don't feel your passion about this but concede your point. I view the thread in the vein that Armando outlines above andI sincerely hope that you're not arguing that all "five zillion my tribe is better than yours threads" are Windows-centric (in my opinion, both sides give as good as they get) and that your issue is with the "classic Mac vs. PC mindset as depicted in the TV commercials", as Ralf suggests.
Carol Haynes:
Several other posts allude to knowing that "most" mac users are this, can't do that, only like this etc; bringing up anecdotal stories which just so happen to confirm the stereotype.-nontroppo (October 18, 2007, 04:50 PM)
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I presume I am one of the posters referred to by this comment. Oh well it has been my experience of Mac users for many years. I spent 7 years managing networks of PCs and Macs side by side as well as mini-computers and other netorks. I did use one anecdote to illustrate my point but I would say that of the people I have worked with over the years the Mac zealots are definitely religious about their computer. Not all users are zealots but there is a much higher proportion in the Mac camp than Windows, and Linux zealots can be pretty rabid too (try reading any thread on ZDNET, on any topic and I guarantee that before the 10th post someone will say UBUNTU will solve all your problems).
I would say that in providing support I did more than my fair share supporting Macs and it was always harder because when Macs have errors they are incredibly cryptic, there is little or no documentation and you can't ask the user base for help - they either say that can't possibly happen as Macs are so wonderful you never see an error or they just scratch their head and say they don't know (and that includes Apple's own tech guys). Having said that the majority of support was generally very similar to Windows support at the "this is how you turn off the Caps Lock" level.
My biggest confusion is that there are so many Mac users out there. The Mac these days is pretty much aimed at two markets: home users with more money than sense (who think iPhoto is the greatest app in the world 'cos it can play music while it gives a slide show) and the professional market.
The wealthy home market also thinks the iPod is the only MP3 player worth having, iPhones are pretty neat and are generally conned by any company who has the bright idea of putting "i" in front of their product into thinking that it was designed by Apple (like the BBC iPlayer - which doesn't even work on Mac or Linux).
The professional market has a case for paying premium prices for hardware and software (as they do on Windows machines too) because they have very specific tasks in mind. A lot of Mac users still think Windows is in the dark ages because back at Windows 3.1 Font rendering was total crap - they just don't realise that Windows now runs almost all the core apps that Power Mac users actually need.
If you read my other posts you will know I don't bow down to Windows or Linux with religious zeal either.
I'm not so much prejudiced when it comes to Mac users but more genuinely confused why anyone would pay twice as much for a machine that is half the spec, can't be easily upgraded, has little user base and doesn't have an extensive catalogue of software. I can only assume it is a victory of style over common sense. If they don't want to use Windows I don't really understand why they don't go for Linux - which at least has the virtues of being free, flexibilty and it runs on cheap hardware. MacOS is pretty much Linux (OK BSD) anyway!
I don't begrudge my friend her ageing Mac - it gives her a great deal of pleasure to see something in her lounge that looks like it came straight of the 1960s film of "War of the Worlds". It does display her photo album very nicely on a 15" screen with a Bach accompaniment and she has iTunes so it is easy to user her iPod! Apart from email she does very little else - she now wants a Macbook so she can also do this in bed. C'est la vie ...
nontroppo:
tomos: well I'd prefer it if nudone was streaking ironically... ;)
fear of hurting people’s feeling shouldn’t stop one from expressing (and mostly in a funny and not that serious way, I believe) what one doesn’t like about macs or mac fanfoys.-Armando (October 18, 2007, 06:19 PM)
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Absolutely fine, fanboys deserve to get teased. But this is deeper than that. Playing with stereotypes is fun, really believing in them isn't.
nontroppo, Would’ve you reacted the same id you were not using a mac? Or do you just feel this waybecause… you identify with your… mac… just kidding. :D-Armando (October 18, 2007, 06:19 PM)
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I've used PCs since MSDOS (an Amiga before that), riding along through Windows 3.11 till XP. I still use XP everyday in VMWare Fusion. I *am* a Windows user, it is where most of my expertise lies. I still know my way through the dark corridors of the registry, and fix Windows machines regularly. I get annoyed when user X insults user Y based on fallacies and ignorance, whatever X or Y may be. I'm a long standing Opera user (migrating from Netscape via Firebird), and stupid browser fans annoy me whatever their affiliation (indeed, I cringe more when it is an Opera user responsible for such idiocy, but they don't speak for anyone other than themselves, part of what is reflected in the original article this thread is about).
My Girlfriend boughy a mac. I still talk to her. But I refuse to talk to her mac. (I’ actually jealous because she treats her much better than me :( )
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:D
Thanks for clarifying that for me, nontroppo. I don't feel your passion about this but concede your point. I view the thread in the vein that Armando outlines above andI sincerely hope that you're not arguing that all "five zillion my tribe is better than yours threads" are Windows-centric (in my opinion, both sides give as good as they get) and that your issue is with the "classic Mac vs. PC mindset as depicted in the TV commercials", as Ralf suggests.
-Darwin (October 18, 2007, 06:28 PM)
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Zealots on all sides get my ire. Those mac vs. pc adverts are pretty stupid, but they are marketing (i.e. commercially driven). What ruffles me is real flesh-n-bone people deciding all of the other tribe are X or Y; again whether they are Mac, PC, siberian hamsters, 4x4 owners.
Not all users are zealots but there is a much higher proportion in the Mac camp than Windows, and Linux zealots can be pretty rabid too (try reading any thread on ZDNET, on any topic and I guarantee that before the 10th post someone will say UBUNTU will solve all your problems).-Carol Haynes (October 18, 2007, 06:38 PM)
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Could you give me precise values, both in absolute numbers and relative percentages please? 8) Because otherwise I'd be tempted to just say it is no more than one tribal opinion amid a sea of other tribal opinions.
I'm not so much prejudiced when it comes to Mac users but more genuinely confused why anyone would pay twice as much for a machine that is half the spec, can't be easily upgraded, has little user base and doesn't have an extensive catalogue of software. I can only assume it is a victory of style over common sense. If they don't want to use Windows I don't really understand why they don't go for Linux - which at least has the virtues of being free, flexibilty and it runs on cheap hardware. MacOS is pretty much Linux (OK BSD) anyway!-Carol Haynes (October 18, 2007, 06:38 PM)
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Because you don't seem to understand about the platform? You have made sweeping generalisations about there only being two types of Mac markets, describing them as ignorant (home users) or arrogant (professionals), then a reductive cost-benefit that encapsulates little of anything substantial. It *does* make sense to lots of people who are neither ignorant or arrogant. Increasing numbers of my department are switching over to Apple hardware because it is more cost efficient to the University (contracts with Dell only other option), and OS X really is an elegant and powerful OS that is more than a repackaged Ubuntu. If it doesn't suit you personally, thats fine, but your reductio ad absurdum generalisation is just that, absurd.
By the way, my Macbook is the best Laptop I've owned (IBM Thinkpad, Dell, and Acer being the previous competition), and it isn't because I'm some middle-class lobotomised zombie with heavy pockets...
Darwin:
By the way, my Macbook is the best Laptop I've owned (IBM Thinkpad, Dell, and Acer being the previous competition), and it isn't because I'm some middle-class lobotomised zombie with heavy pockets...
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;D
Armando:
By the way, my Macbook is the best Laptop I've owned (IBM Thinkpad, Dell, and Acer being the previous competition), and it isn't because I'm some middle-class lobotomised zombie with heavy pockets...
-nontroppo (October 18, 2007, 08:34 PM)
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Yes, it's a nice machine. If you can get the right price for it (special academic pricing, etc.), it's (was?) actually pretty good for the price. That was 4-5 months ago, I think; I haven't really checked today's prices... I’m not so sure it’s that much of a nice “deal” (a bit of a strong word in that case, maybe) anymore.
I *am* a Windows user, it is where most of my expertise lies.
-nontroppo (October 18, 2007, 08:34 PM)
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Of course, I knew that from your posts in other threads... that's why I dared to tease you. :)
I must say that, like Carol, I find that there seems to be a higher proportion of “annoying/arrogant computer illiterates” in the Mac user pool, and a lot of blind religiosity (funny Carol mentioned iPhoto — I had a funny iPhoto conversation yesterday; my friend was just litteraly in awe with iPhoto). Yes, that's been my impression too. It is not, of course, a scientific survey, but it’s been like that approximately... 95.0122% of the time. Approximately What can I say!!! The other 4,98779999999999% ? I do have some "Mac owner" friends who know a lot (I'm starting to sound like Stephen Colbert or someone like that). We all do. One's a sys admin, and the other one knows how to code (…a bit). And they… don’t like PCs 9a euphemism). Don’t even get them started...
My favorite “Mac friend” (:D) can usually only say one thing to me -- very seriously -- if I ever mention computer problems : get a Mac! :D Now that's very helpful, especially considering that I'm always the one "fixing" my girlfriend's Mac (ok: I said I didn't talk to the sexy thing... but I confess : I do touch it once in a while -- and it's damn hot… not even metaphorically speaking...). I’d have 2 Macs to fix. No thanks. :)
Last week, one of my colleagues who teach in University of Ottawa asked me if he could run a PC software called Pajek on his mac... Guessed what I replied ? :)
Nope...I actually tried to help him... :-[
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