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Messages - tranglos [ switch to compact view ]

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251
Living Room / Re: Adware is not freeware, right?
« on: December 23, 2011, 07:57 AM »
I'm afraid it's even worse than you are describing :(

Yeah, except I refuse to use it. (One exception: Evernote, but that's only because it autosyncs with my phone, I'm not using it nearly enough to justify a paid account, and there are no ad-free alternatives that I know of with a PC desktop app..)

We may look back with fond memories on the days when we could simply buy and own the things we want.

I'm not seeing much of a downslide on the Windows side, thankfully, and I dread you could prove me wrong. But whenever a new platform is introduced, it comes with a fully-developed marketing mechanism. I was amazed that so may people would pay for junk like ringtones and wallpapers (or OMG, "robot gear" in Portal 2!), but it's their money.

What's sad/strange to me is that there is next to no backlash today. Even inexperienced Windows users know to avoid spyware and adware, and indeed they're mostly a thing of the past - but all the smartphone platforms are a new breeding ground for the worst rubbish, and we eat it all up. Tech gurus and other brilliant people have been explaining at least since mid-nineties that the net is not "like" television, but in the end people seem to accept the TV delivery model, with subscriptions, advertizing and all.

Yesterday I saw ads overlaid on a YouTube video for the first time. It was a user-made game walkthrough (that's how I check if I want to buy a game), and it shows semi-transparent ads in the lower third of the picture. In Chrome. I wonder if this is what the new Flash update was for.


252
Living Room / Adware is not freeware, right?
« on: December 23, 2011, 07:03 AM »
Adware is not freeware, right? Never has been, has it? In the beginning, adware makers did try hard to make it a norm to brand their merchandise as free, but they were kicked out and laughed out of court, so to speak (the court of public opinion in this case). Since then, adware is adware, free is free, and we've been living happily ever after.

So why is is suddenly acceptable to call Android adware "free"? 99% of "free" apps on Android Market are adware, though you wouldn't know it from the market descriptions, screenshots or any blogs that recommend the software. Even Wikipedia apps show ads, though I doubt any of the proceeds go to the Wikimedia Foundation.

Seems we may have won a battle but are losing the war. I hate my smartphone today.



253
Found Deals and Discounts / Re: Listary Pro for $9.95 on 17 December
« on: December 16, 2011, 01:53 PM »
Hello guys, Listary Pro will be on Bits du Jour for $9.95 (50% off) on 17 December.
The link is http://www.bitsdujour.com/software/listary-pro-2/
Enjoy it ;D

Looks interesting, and somehow I've missed it so far. Thank you!

254
N.A.N.Y. 2012 / Re: NANY 2012 Pledge & Early Beta: Ethervane Echo
« on: December 06, 2011, 02:26 PM »
Beautiful software :)
I left Ditto and changed to Ethervane Echo.

But... I searched for the always on top feature.

I often put the clipboard manager beside my text-editor and use keep it there.
(it would be nice just to have an icon at the top of ethervane echo (in the header) just to put the software on top (of/off click).

Well, Echo does not have a toolbar and it won't get one in the nearest future (maybe later). As for the stay-on-top feature itself, it's been requested before and it's on my to-do list. But, I'm getting some unusually weird behaviors when setting Echo's window to stay on top - looks like side effects of recent changes in the Delphi compiler. It used to be simple and problem free in earlier versions of Delphi, now it just produces some unacceptable side effects. If I can find a workaround, I'll add the feature.

(Echo does and will continue to work with XP. No earlier versions of Windows will be supported though, because they can't handle Unicode-enabled apps compiled in Delphi.)



255
N.A.N.Y. 2012 / Re: NANY 2012 Pledge & Early Beta: Ethervane Echo
« on: December 06, 2011, 02:22 PM »
And maybe an idea for futur versions:
programs from Ethervane Echo does not capture text
p.e. password managers

Already possible - please see the Help file: Advanced Topics -> Privacy Considerations -> Excluding applications.

Also, good password managers should implement (and several do implement) a technique invented by the author of ClipMate for just that purpose. It relies on the password manager setting a special clipboard format CLIPBOARD_VIEWER_IGNORE when copying any sensitive data to clipboard. When Echo sees that special format, it doesn't capture the clip. You can check with the author of your password manager whether it uses this technique, and if not, ask them to do so. It's the best solution by far, and extremely easy to code.



256
Found Deals and Discounts / Re: MindMaple 50% discount
« on: December 05, 2011, 02:46 PM »
Seems very promising, and great-looking too. But the first impression is underwhelming. When you install and run it first, you see a "welcome" sample file that looks like this:

mindmaple.png

Not sure if this is intended, but doesn't look quite right at all. Zooming in does not bring order, the text labels still show well outside the boxes, and topics still overlap each other, so that the example is completely unreadable. Hm.

257
Developer's Corner / Re: Ribbon UI - is it really THAT good?
« on: December 01, 2011, 02:48 PM »
The ribbon gives you a flexible toolbar. Looking at the example you gave there, that's what it looks like. You just don't get that nice, compact UI with most toolbars.

So this is where we disagree, I don't have a problem with that :) The way I see it, in reply to the part quoted above, the ribbon gives you a flexible toolbar but takes away the menu. I don't miss the toolbars, I miss the menus! A menu is much more compact, faster to navigate with the keyboard and - to me - more discoverable than the ribbon.


If you can't fit in an extra 80 pixels or so at the top when you have monitors at 1920 x 1200... You have a real problem. It's not the software taking up 80 pixels that's the problem.

Yep, and in that vein of thought, with Office 2010 MS came up with the lovely idea of taking the whole page (screen) for what used to be the "File" menu before, and later was the "Office button" in Office 2007. Why do they hate me? :)

If you can't afford a monitor with a modern resolution, then the solution to me seems to be to use older software that's designed for small resolutions. But don't blame the software author for taking advantage of newer technologies that most people have.

Two 23" monitors here, thanks. But IMO you have it backwards. What's the point of buying a bigger screen, if new software is going to take ever more of it and leave you with less?

But, I will concede the point on screen estate. (I just don't like hearing MS's claim that the ribbon is more compact then menu+toolbars. It isn't.) My main beef with the ribbon is that it makes commands much harder to discover (often you see the icons only, while menus give you enough horizontal space for informative descriptions), much harder to navigate than a main menu, and even when I know where a command is supposed to be, the ribbon gets shrunk when you resize the window, and what used to be a big button is now tiny and I can't find it again. After two years of working in Word and Excel nearly every day I should have learned where the things are, but I haven't. To me, that's a failure for which I'm not about to blame myself, since I don't experience similar cognitive difficulties with other software.


As for .NET. Who cares?

Click through for some off-topic .Net loathing...
I do, when a program that used to start inside of a second now takes 10, and when it flickers all the time displaying menus or switching views. When I built my last system 4 years ago, I started from this, then upped some of the specs even more. I later swapped a video card for one that can play most of today's FPS games at max settings. I used to have a WD Raptor drive for the system partition (until it broke). I really don;t like waiting, so I built a system that didn't make me wait too much. And still, both back than and today, .Net apps flicker like heck and perform most operations with the urgency of a lazy iceberg. Granted, sometimes coders do things in ways that are inappropriate for the platform, but their suboptimal code would not cause significant slowdowns in native C++ or a Delphi apps. And still the apps crash just like they used to, except what used to be "invalid pointer operation" is now "reference not set to a valid object instance" or some such. It's the same darn error! For the user, .Net gives no gain whatsoever, but it exacts the very high price in loss of performance.



At the end of the day there is 1 and only 1 and exactly 1 consideration that matters: What will make life easier for the people that use the software? Nothing else matters beyond that. Nothing.

On this we totally agree. It's just that the ribbon makes it significantly harder for me, not easier. That is precisely why I am against it.


258
Developer's Corner / Re: Ribbon UI - is it really THAT good?
« on: December 01, 2011, 02:15 PM »
Also don't forget that the ribbon is more than just a menu / toolbar replacement, e.g. the Galleries are a new concept, which I think is very powerful.

Yes, the part where you hover the mouse over a font or style selector and the text in your document temporarily assumes that style - that part is awesome. But although it came together with the ribbon, it does not require one. You could just easily have that kind of "live preview" with a menu or a toolbar.

On the other hand, Office 2007 had these tiny semi-buttons:

widget.png

I wonder how many people ever figured out you can click those. I personally know a few who never have. And these are pretty important buttons - you can't get to Font or Paragraph properties without those. Why not allow users to click the whole lower bar where the "Font" and "Paragraph" labels are? Now that would be intuitive and easy to click. Seems like no-one at Microsoft has ever read Joel Spolsky's essay on affordances - or they have read it and decided to do the opposite out of spite.

And although you can navigate to these tiny thingamajigs with the Tab key, try doing that in Word 2007, it takes at least twice as many keypresses as Alt+F (Open Format menu) and three or four Down Arrow (to navigate to "Paragraph..." or "Font..") used to take. And really, even if you see them, there is no indication of what they do. They seem to still be there in Office 2010.

259
Developer's Corner / Re: Ribbon UI - is it really THAT good?
« on: December 01, 2011, 10:16 AM »
Like others have said, the ribbon is either a "love it or hate it" item, for some reason.

Let me add my $0.02. The ribbon looks totally awesome, but I would argue that it less usable and in the long run more annoying than menus and toolbars.

First of all, you can navigate menus with the keyboard much easier than the ribbon. You can just browse the menu, and discover keyboard shortcuts in peace. IN the ribbon, accelerators only show up when you press Alt, and when they do, the labels obscure big parts of the buttons, so it's really hard to see what is what. Otherwise keyboard shortcuts are only displayed in mouseovers. Menus 1, Ribbon 0.

The ribbon, at least in Office, tends to be dynamic. When you're focused on a table, an additional page may be shown with table-related commands. I hate that truly, because after two years of using Word and Excel 2007 I still cannot find important functions I often use. Sometimes I cannot find them because they are simply not there - they only show when Word thinks I need them.

The ribbon does take a lot of space, and if you watch the MS presentation, the crucial point there is that they only decided to go with the ribbon when it became clear they could not fit any more stuff into the menus and toolbars, and when they knew users did not even know about a lot of fearures and so they never used them. OK, I buy that. But to day you often see applications that have a ribbon with only one tab, like this. Now that totally makes no sense. Clearly the author went for the Aaah! cuteness of the ribbon without anything close to the need for it that MS originally had. There are plenty of apps like this, and to me a design like that indicates the author wanted to entice users with cool-looking interface, but at a price in ease of use and convenience (and screen estate). When I see that, I am very unlikely to buy the product, because I know the author doesn't care much about how the app is actually used, only that it looks good.

(The same BTW goes for anything .Net based - same reason, except there's not even the visual reward there).

My rule of the thumb is, if you have enough UI to fill half a dozen tabs on the ribbon, then maybe  consider it. But if you're going to have a whole huge ribbon with only one tab and six buttons on it, then that's exactly what the ribbon was not designed for.




260
N.A.N.Y. 2012 / Re: NANY 2012 Pledge & Early Beta: Ethervane Echo
« on: November 30, 2011, 05:28 AM »
I disabled the automatic minimizing on focus losing. The topmost clip is displayed correctly, until I start MS Excel 2003. Then the clip's icon is immediately changed to Excel regardless of what it has been before. So far I didn't discover any similarly behaving application.

Yeah, Excel is an unending nuisance when it comes to clipboard. I cannot reproduce the exact behavior you describe with Excel 2007 on Win7, but in general, it is common to see this happen when Excel runs - so much so there is a long paragraph on that in the Help file (Useful Information -> Bugs and limitations).

In short, there is no way to be sure which application has just copied data to clipboard. You can only guess. Usually a good guess is the application that is active (has focus), because 99% of the time clipboard operations are initiated by the user. If you press Ctrl+C in an app, it has to be the active app, so Echo makes the correct guess, and gets the icon from the correct application.

Problems start when an application changes the clipboard without you doing anything. That's what Excel (sometimes) does. Perhaps version 2003 does that more than 2007. Basically, Echo sits there waiting until Windows tells it that clipboard contents have changed. You start Excel, and Excel rewrites the clipboard all by itself - that's a bad thing to do. Now Echo knows there is a change on the clipboard and when it checks, Excel is the active app, so it updates the new clip (which in this case is the same text that was on clipboard before) and grabs the icon from Excel.

So everything really works as it should: there is a clipboard change, Echo gets the notification and processes it. The problem is, Excel didn't really put anything new on the clipboard and it had no business messing around with it in the first place - but from Echo's point of view, it's just a clipboard change like any other.

There's no obvious solution beyond just giving up on collecting icons (but the source application name will still be changed to Excel, and the clip's date will be updated). I could do some special processing for Excel and ignore the change if the text on clipboard is the same as it was before. That would probably work, but then Echo would drop legitimate copy operations in Excel. For example:

1. You copy a cell in Excel
2. Then you realize you need the cell to be bold, so you press Ctrl+B.
3. Then you copy the cell again.

The workaround would cause Echo to ignore the second copy operation in (3).

Excel 2007 doesn't seem to be causing this problem on startup, but yes, I have seen the icon "shift" in other situations. Sometimes it happens in the opposite direction: you copy something in Excel and Echo catches it. Then you close Excel. As it shuts down, Excel again sometimes modifies the clipboard for no good reason. Echo detects the change, but by that time Excel's window is already gone, and another app's window is active. So Echo gets the icon of some completely unrelated app and replaces Excel icon with it. And again, there's not much I can do if Excel "fakes" a clipboard change just because it is starting or shutting down.

261
N.A.N.Y. 2012 / Re: NANY 2012 Pledge & Early Beta: Ethervane Echo
« on: November 28, 2011, 04:03 PM »
PS : what do you use as a to-do lister ? (Curious)

My Life Organized Pro. Not optimal for this task (e.g. can't include screenshots of bugs or link a particular idea under multiple headings), but quick and easy, and I already have it. I can't stand the internet-based bug-trackers, and for a single home developer they don't really make sense. MLO does a good thing with prioritizing tasks - one click and I see all the most urgent tasks on top.



262
N.A.N.Y. 2012 / Re: NANY 2012 Pledge & Early Beta: Ethervane Echo
« on: November 28, 2011, 10:01 AM »
Thanks for the new version tranglos. May I add a suggestion (this may exist but I haven't found it) :

  • a hot key to connect/disconnect to clipboard

It doesn't exist, but it's on my to-do list with a big question mark icon next to it:

tododetail.png

The reason for the question mark is that, knowing my own fat fingers, I could press the hotkey unintentionally. When that happens, Echo will disconnect and I'll only find out about it when I need to paste something in. For that reason not only is there no hotkey, but not even a keyboard shortcut inside Echo.

I guess I should add the hotkey along with an option to disable it.

263
N.A.N.Y. 2012 / Re: NANY 2012 Pledge & Early Beta: Ethervane Echo
« on: November 26, 2011, 09:56 PM »
As a long-time Ditto user I was a bit hesitating, but now I definitely switched to Echo. It's just great! You managed to add many features I was always missing from Ditto, like minimal clip length, etc. (And I don't miss storing bitmaps at all.)

Thanks!!

Pressing the activation hotkey when Echo already has focus should (optionally) dismiss its window

Added to the to-do list.

Assignable hotkeys to first 10 clips (I know it was discussed here already), I was always using Win key and a number

This reminds me: hotkeys or keyboard shortcuts? Hotkeys would work no matter what application you are currently using (just like the Win+Insert activation hotkey). Keyboard shortcuts would only work within Echo.

Both are possible, though registering as many as 10 system-wide hotkeys is rather greedy - I think I'd rather just do shortcuts internal to Echo.

264
N.A.N.Y. 2012 / Re: NANY 2012 Pledge & Early Beta: Ethervane Echo
« on: November 26, 2011, 09:51 PM »
New version released November 27: 0.9.3.101.

See the top post in this thread for download links.

What's new in this release:

CHANGED: To make Echo easier to use and more intuitive, three search modes (Basic, Wildcards, Advanced) have been reduced to two: Basic and Advanced. Wildcards are now supported in both modes (previously they worked only in the dedicated Wildcards mode). In short, there are now two search modes instead of three, and you can use wildcards everywhere. Please see Searching for clips and Using wildcards in the Help file for details, or see this post.

FIXED: The "Reset on restart" option in Search group was resetting ALL the search settings, including min text length, the "Wait for Enter key" toggle, etc. As a result, these settings were not preserved across sessions if "Reset on restart" was enabled. This has been fixed, and the option has been renamed to "Reset mode on restart" to clarify.

FIXED: The option to start Echo minimized works now (thanks, highend01!)
FIXED: The option to hide application icon to notification area (tray) did not always work, depending on the state of several other non-related settings.
FIXED: When a view's name was changed in the View Properties dialog box, the name was not updated on the view tab until Echo was restarted.
FIXED: Small internal inconsistencies is the Database Maintenance dialog box.

ADDED: Basic editing buttons added to the toolbar in the external clip editor.
ADDED: URL highlighting in the external clip editor.
ADDED: You can now use the "Delete" key to delete clips. (The previous shortcut Ctrl+Delete still works as well.)
ADDED: Several more Help topics completed, notably Selecting Clipboard Formats and Database Maintenance.


As before, install or unpack over the previous version. Make sure you see this post about the changes in the search interface.

265
General Software Discussion / Re: The Best Of: text editors
« on: November 25, 2011, 07:28 AM »
I hope its okay to updtae the thread as things have, moved on a bit in xml, take a look at Liquid XML Editor which is a fairly new entrant but very well built, just look at its fancy graphical interface.

Looking good, thanks! If I didn't have my Oxygen licence, I'd definitely be giving this one a try.

266
Living Room / Google scares me, I think.
« on: November 24, 2011, 04:38 PM »
Okay, now I am spooked. I was talking to a friend on Google Chat (part of the GMail interface). Through stupid absent-mindedness I typed a question, then closed the GMail tab and went to other things.

A minute later the reply came to my Android phone.

Apparently Google figured out that I was no longer "on" the chat and re-routed the message. Useful, yes. But scary, too! My phone is tied into my Google account, otherwise it'd be pretty useless, but I still try to keep up pretenses by disabling GPS, location services, all that. But there is no escaping anymore.



267
N.A.N.Y. 2012 / Re: NANY 2012 Pledge & Early Beta: Ethervane Echo
« on: November 17, 2011, 05:13 PM »
This is just to say thank you. This is so elegant indeed; such a handsome UI and a perfectly flowing experience. Instant favorite, using it everywhere.

Thanks, Paulo. Love to hear it!

268
N.A.N.Y. 2012 / Re: NANY 2012 Pledge & Early Beta: Ethervane Echo
« on: November 17, 2011, 05:13 PM »
I just tried this, and I think you've done a great job. But, because I can never keep my mouth shut, I'd like to offer a couple of comments.

Always welcome! :)

First, the default filter for the URLs view really ought to have a second pattern added so that it also matches on secure sites. So there should be two filters: "http://" and "https://".

Sure, I can add that.

Second, I wish there was an option for a single keystroke to paste as text. I see that I can bring up the window, and then Shift-Enter to paste text only. But it would save me a fraction of a second ;) if I had a direct hotkey for "paste as text" so I don't need to open the window first.

In any app I can (Word, mostly) I always assign a key to a macro that pastes as plain text, so I totally see how this could be useful. I think I can add this, but there's one little hitch: the shortcut will not paste the current clipboard contents, but the latest clip captured by Echo. The two are usually the same, but not always. You can copy to clipboard things that Echo does not capture: graphics, obviously, but also pieces of text that may be filtered out by Echo (too short, too long, source application is filtered out, etc). When that happens, clipboard content is not the same as Echo's latest clip.

In these cases pressing the special keypress would do something unexpected: it would paste (as text) the clip that was last captured in Echo - not the clip that was on the clipboard. And whatever was on the clipboard, uncaptured, will be gone. This *might* be a cause of much support email: "the wrong clip is pasted and my data disappeared! What happened?"

But, the advantages probably outweigh the potential problems, so I've added it to the todo list.

269
N.A.N.Y. 2012 / Re: NANY 2012 Pledge & Early Beta: Ethervane Echo
« on: November 17, 2011, 05:00 PM »
1. How do I start the portable edition autominimized to tray?
 I have set StartMinimized (Startup behavior) to true (and ofc quit and restarted Echo afterwards) but the main window will always appear on screen when I start it.

Let me check this. Do you use the (default) option to automatically minimize Echo when it loses focus? (This option is at Preferences -> Display -> MinimizeOnDecativate). If you do, Echo should minimize on startup regardless of StartMinimized, due to the fact that when Windows starts applications, Echo is very likely to lose focus soon after Windows has launched it.

I'll have to trace the behavior of StartMinimized and see if it's going wrong somewhere.

2. Is there a way to use the InMemoryDatabase option without populating the first clipboard entry with www.ethervane.com after each start?

Yes, that is a separate setting: Preferences -> Capturing Clips -> CatchUpOnConnect.
(This setting is independent of in-memory database, it just causes Echo to capture whatever is on the clipboard when Echo starts. Useful for those who may prefer to start Echo manually and sometimes forget to do so :-) )


3. Could you please add an option that allows us to enter a number between 0 and 9 to paste entry id 1, two, ..., 10 to the current application instead of selecting e.g. the fifth entry by going down with the cursor down key 4 times? Optionally with the shift modifier to paste them as plain text?
Ofc there should be some kind of override option so that any of these numbers doesn't trigger the search function.

I know I should do this, but I don't think it's going to be just digits. Exactly as you described, there would have to be two "modes": mode A, in which digits are interpreted as search characters, and mode B, where digits are used to paste. I think this is a wrong design, because no matter how clear an indication, you'll always be unsure and always double-checking what the current mode is. And, pressing a digit key in the wrong mode would be a source of endless annoyance (especially if Echo pastes instead of searching - everybody would hate that for a good reason).

So there needs to be a modifier, and it cannot be SHIFT, because Shift+digit is another character, which also goes into the search box. That leaves Alt and Ctrl, both of which are already used (Ctrl+digit changes the view; Alt+digit changes sorting). What I can do is add a less convenient modifier such as Ctrl+Alt, and let users choose which modifier does what. Then you could assign the most convenient modifier key to the feature you use most.


270
Light Alloy:
http://www.light-alloy.ru/en/home/

OMG, Light Alloy is awesome! (For my specific purpose, at least.) I don't even need to reload the subtitles - it automatically reloads them as soon as I save the file in the editor. Lifesaver! Thanks! More exclamation points!! :)


271
What IQ version are you using ? There was a compatibility problem with IE 9 and some of the components IQ uses. The last build solves that problem AFAIK.
Otherwise, I really don't see what could be the problem as I've never seen anyone complain about that in the forums -- apart from the IE9 compatibility problem.

Hi Armando! I was using InfoQube0.9.25W1Portable. What happened was that I would click New -> New IQBase with sample data, and as soon as the file was loaded and I tried to resize the two panels, the application would freeze like this:

iqfreeze.png

...and it would stay like that until I killed the process. (The title bar message is Windows saying "no response")

This does not seem to occur in the latest build, thanks for that!

Your list of how InfoQube handles pretty much all my requirements and nice-to-have's is amazing! I'll be giving it a try.

272
The desktop is not in fashion I guess  :-\

And that's too bad, because the browser sets us back 20 years or so in terms of usability - even if WorkFlowy does a lot of good stuff within that absurdly limiting environment.

And since (years ago) Hotmail deleted six months' worth of email from my then-fianceƩ just because I didn't log in to the account for a while, and since all the break-ins you read about every week, I won't trust anything worthwhile to an online service, ever.


273
WorkFlowy really is great, though I'd love to see some styling options - sometimes I want a part of the outline to stare me in the face.

If my coding skills were up to par, I'd do the same on the desktop, but this is way out of my league. There are no Delphi components that even come close, and tree-based controls are not cutting it for various reasons, I've tried. On the other hand, a text editor (with or without rich formatting) is no good either, because it doesn't have  the concept of "items" as integral elements. You can select and drag a piece of text, for example, but not a whole item, and certainly not including its child nodes. And I just don't know enough to do it all myself from scratch.

The funny thing is, I had never felt a particular need for a single-pane outliner until just recently. As part of a group I volunteer for, I organize and moderate public debate panels. I prepare for these meetings extensively, and there's nothing better than a single-pane outliner to sketch the general concepts and drill down to specific facts I want to include and establish the order in which to present them. I guess I could do it in Word too, but that'd be so boring ;)



274
I've just found the almost-perfect outliner: WorkFlowy. You really have to start working with it to appreciate how smooth and intuitive it is, but this requires creating an account and all that, so here are some screenshots:

Basic view of an outline:
workflowy-main.png

Search results:
workflowy-search.png

Isn't it just awesome? Doesn't get much better than that.

But, I'm not going to entrust my data to a service that may drop off the face of the web tomorrow for all I know, and despite how smooth and nice it is to write in it, using a browser is never going to be as convenient as a dedicated desktop app. Unfortunately, there seems to be nothing nearly as good on the desktop side:

Ecco: dead, and all the other features just get in the way

InfoQube: probably too big for what I need, and unfortunately doesn't seem usable just yet. (Open the sample file, then try resizing the panes: IQ starts to "reflow" the text and never seems to finish, have to kill the process every time.)

ToDoPaper: not bad at all, but the outline is nowhere near as neat as in WorkFlowy, the app is buggy and might be dead (version 2.0 announced in February, still not released). But really - not bad at all, I just can't commit to it as it is now.

Main screen:

todopaper-main.png

Search results:

todopaper-search.png


TreeSheets: not really an outliner, extremely odd, can't figure it out, probably doesn't even belong in this list. Have you tried scrolling in it with the mouse wheel?

SainOutliner: Not bad at first sight, but really rudimentary, missing too many features. Can't even change the font size. Typical old Ctrl+F search dialog box, with no "repeat find" (usually F3) feature. No filtering, no highlighting. When you enter a longer paragraph of text, the item area does not resize, so you end up typing in a very long single-line edit box. The area only expands to fit multiple lines when you finish editing. Showstopper: can't select text in multiple items, only within a single item. Read: not really usable just yet, and it's hard to see if it's going to get any of the features it's missing. (Does have a good idea for automatic numbering of items though):

sainoutliner-main.png

UV Outliner: Another nice idea that never quite got finished. Buggy. Crashes if you leave an item empty, then click it. Little annoyances like when you type at the bottom of the window, some bottom pixels get obscured (truncated) below the window border. Lots of missing features. Worst search ever, with no "repeat find", and sometimes when you jump to a match, pressing Enter deletes the text you've just found. Same showstopper as in Sain: can't select multiple items.  In the "attention to detail" department, this one really needs work. Rare strong point: can create custom columns (but they're just text):

uvoutliner-main.png

Noteliner: Interesting! Kind of drab and certainly quirky, but has full rich text ability, search with filtering and highlighting, can even add tables inside the outline, can create additional columns... Well, it does crash when you create a new empty file and hover the mouse over the "Note" menu :) But when I said it was quirky, it's really quirky! Can't seem to set the default font, can't find out how to expand/collapse items using the keyboard, plus lots of weirdness. For example, Under a menu called "Page" click "To do". It highlights the current item and all its siblings in yellow - what does it mean? Is it configurable? Who knows... The whole app feels strange like that, like it has tons of small little features but misses major ones. Anyway, this is what it looks like:

Main window:

noteliner-main.png

Search:

noteliner-search.png


OK, so it looks like I'm posting another of my scathing micro-reviews. So let me add what I think a single-pane outliner should have:

Required

- Ability to hold more than 1 line of text in an item. Few desktop apps can do that, and almost none does it well. Even MLO can't, and when you're limited to one-liners, you can't really type what you're thinking. Adding notes in a separate pane is not a substitute, since you have to constantly jump between the outline and the notes pane, which kills your flow!
- Fast instant search with filtering, just like WorkFlowy! No Ctrl+F and show a dialog box, that's so 1990s!
- Virtual views, where items are filtered based on user criteria (and shown as a flat list). MLO does that.
- Keyboard shortcuts to edit/rearrange the outline structure
- Some form of appending additional, unobtrusive notes to items.

Nice-to-have

- Desktop app!
- Ability to add some formatting to items (make bold, make larger, change color)
- Same as above, but automated: define styles and have them automatically applied depending on the nesting level
- Checkboxes!
- Metadata: timestamps for items (date created, date modified), importance level, etc.
- Ideally, user-defined columns for items (but with the possibility of hiding the columns and only showing the outline).
- Rich text inside items
- Since tree hierarchy is very rigid, it'd be nice to be able to "associate" items with each other somehow. Especially if you need to refer to one item in another. If the list is bulleted, you cannot do that at all. If the list were numbered, and I typed here: "see item 17.3.b", the number could easily become invalid as you add/delete items in the list. So instead, some clickable method of saying "See item Foo" is necessary.
- Easy switching between bulleted and numbered list, with various numbering styles (1, 2, 3; I, II, III, i, ii, iii, a, b, c etc.)

WorkFLowy on the desktop, can anyone do that? I'd pay all kinds of money.

275
Tranglos, I just checked all your requirements.  Light Alloy does all 4 things.  It even has a thing called "Easy Subtitle Browser" which is a really nice and fast GUI for reloading subtitles.  Hope that helps!

Looks good, thanks a lot! I'm downloading it now. Real life preempted my further work on subtitling the movie, but I need to get back to it real soon now. Been sticking with KMPlayer so far, but I'd welcome an improvement.

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