Messages - Josh [ switch to compact view ]

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OK no one is forcing you to upgrade - but there is a pressure to do so, especially on businesses who receive documents in latest formats. True you can specify which format to save in but lots of people don't, files appear on the internet (not least on MS's own website) that can't be opened with earlier versions.

Doesn't alter the underlying question though - why is it necessary to produce the annual upgrade when it adds at best extremely limited additional functionality?

Because they are giving customers that have requested certain features what they wanted? You forget, the reason most of these features, that 5% of users will use, end up in office is because someone somewhere has requested it. Also, they shouldnt be forced to not update their file formats because people dont feel like upgrading their software. Thats like saying Ford cant add stuff to their cars because some people dont know how to use the features or dont feel like purchasing a new car when they add them.

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Try opening an Office 2003 file in Office 95 ....

You could argue that MS only 'extended' HTML, XHTML etc. for webpages - but an awful lot of webpages can only be viewed properly in Internet Explorer - even though many other browsers are standards compliant.

Again, you arent forced to upgrade, if you have a client using office 2003, tell them to save the file in the older format, it takes 2 seconds to change the file type drop down listing. I again, fail to see where they are being forced to upgrade.

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MS Office is another example of no innovation - every version loks the same, does the same and adds a few esoteric bits that only 0.5% of users are even aware of - but they change the file formst just sufficiently to force people to upgrade to maintian compatability.

Sorry - end of rant ...
Office forced people to upgrade? From my understanding, every version of office is still able to open up documents created in office 95. So where is the forcing the user to upgrade? If they wanted to force people to upgrade, they would just remove support for older formats, but they dont. They realize not everyone wants to upgrade. Heck, my father is still running office 97 on winxp pro and its running like a champ. Why hasnt he upgraded if MS is forcing users to upgrade?

Also, MS only PROPOSED extensions to the RSS system, they havent done anything about implimenting them yet, only asked for approval

I am sorry, but if you are going to argue this thread, at least have an open mind and dont look to bash one end or the other in every reply.

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I will say this, I (am?) was a huge FireFox fan. I still really am.  However after beta testing IE7(yes, it's look and appearances mimic FF) I can see myself shifting back to IE7.  The one thing, that I really kept an eye out for is Memory!  If anyone on this forum disagree's with me, then  you haven't paid attention to the amount of RAM that FF sucks up.  FireFox is absolutely horrible at memory management.  I'm tired of looking at my processes to see that FF is consuming well in excess of 125mb of ram.  IE7 thus far has NOT had this problem. And because of this, and other more minor features, I will definately switch to IE7.  IE7 has the same features as FF, imo.  I will say, that IE7 security is a concern(because of past history) however, I'm willing to take that chance. I see MS, making advances in security, finally, so I'm coming to terms with it.


j.

I am waiting for the argument that "IE components are preloaded with windows". This is the argument firefox/opera fanboys tend to use against IE. However, I am not certain they realize that the iexplore.exe process consumes far less ram (even with 17 windows open (for ie6) compared to 17 tabs in firefox) than firefox.exe. Yes, microsoft is slow, and I know they are always bashed because of their abusing their monopoly, but if it werent for windows, pc's wouldnt be as widespread and used as much as they are nowadays. We wouldnt have some of the great pieces of software or games that we do if it werent for microsoft being the big business that they are.

To the poster above, "Firefox sometimes has ram issues", do you not use but one or two extensions? I leave firefox open at night, and last night when I went to bed it was consuming 80MB of ram for 17 tabs (reasonable), but when I opened it this morning, it is using 160MB. Tell me, how can a browser double its ram usage while doing nothing? Also, extensions are a moot point with IE. You have been able to customize IE far more and for far longer than you have Firefox. There are so many addon programs for IE (the equivelant of extensions) its not funny. Also, microsoft probably doesnt allow you to DIRECTLY extend the browser like you can firefox for the sheer fact that if one extension came out with an exploit, it would tarnish the name of IE (as the greasemonkey incident did to firefox) and people would think microsoft responsible for not checking each and every extension. Also please, dont use the "its only 1.x" excuse. The mozilla team has known about the memory issues for some time yet everytime I've seen someone visit #firefox on irc.mozilla.org or post about them on the boards the "Devs" and "Mods" claim that they dont experience the issues and say it is a none-issue. 90% of complaints I see in #firefox are users complaining about memory usage yet the firefox dev team fails to address those issues. Firefox users seem to have a denial complex about them where they A. cant admit something is wrong with their browser, B. If they do admit to a flaw, they try and poke at other browsers by saying "Hey look, this browser still has X number of flaws open", and C. the userbase tends to flame anyone who goes against the past two entries.

Now, I am not a microsoft zealot, I use firefox as my default browser and enjoy it (although it is still very unstable), but I dont think its the best possible browser. Opera has that choice for me. The only reason I dont use it is that they dont allow third party integration (no, it doesnt have to be extensions). They dont allow me to use tools I've paid for and grown accustomed to that work in every other browser on the windows platform, instead forcing me to use stuff that the dev's feel like adding, and after they do, leave to stagnate. This is where a 3rd party API would allow for greater expandability of opera.

Anyways, microsoft has done some things right, yes they have a monopoly and often abuse it, but dont forget we wouldnt be where we are now if it werent for them.

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General Software Discussion / Re: Program Wanted
« on: December 19, 2005, 10:55 PM »
Easier way, after updating, kill the Automatic updates service, and you kill the annoying reminders

start - run - services.msc

Right click on automatic updates listing, choose STOP

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