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Messages - helmut85 [ switch to compact view ]

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(EDIT after uploading: When I wrote "legalize" here, on several occasions, I always meant "legalese" of course - sorry from a non-native speaker.)

EDIT before uploading:

40hz, I wrote this down, a little bit unordered, then thought by myself, don't bother people with such a long, disparate thing, with all its repetitions (and not having the time to edit it properly). But your insistence on the legal-moral aspect here bothers me; your argumentation doesn't take into real account the very special position Adobe has in the current world of sw. I don't vilify them at all, but I think we, customers, have some moral rights, too, whatever the legalize, and I'm rather positive about even the legalize developing in our sense here, in this affair. So finally, I think, in order to counterweight what you pretend to be "right" here, my arguments are needed, even in this sub-optimal arrangement that follows:

"I dont know the figures but I rekon Adobe have only gotten really huge with the advent of digital camera and the popularity of Photoshop amongst amatuer enthusiasts." - tomos, that's what I tried to explain to 40hz above, and argued Adobe had to take into account, in the very first place - and they did! And we concur here, I think: It seems to have been a mistake, or even sabotage, then they panicked, shutting down the codes (but knowing netherless they would spread all over the web within the next days anyway), then their marketing staff indeed didn't sleep this night (and how could they have?), and now they've come out, as the doctor has found out some hours ago (while I had given up), with the "professional" reaction to such desaster, i.e. they're really containing it both from the marketing side as from the legal pov:

- They've made it technically possible for anyone, now, to use everything in that package (= the codes were to be spread in the web anyway, but here, they "deliver" them anew, which psychologically is very different)

- At the same time, they don't actively allow for use, except for genuine CS2 / single products within that package customers; at the same time, they know that masses of "illegitimate" users will now use CS2 or some product out of the package technically (but not legally) given for free (and in fact, I think it's the very first time in sw history that the illegal codes are spread - and now deliberately spread, after downing, then reconnecting the web page in question - by the developing house itself - never ever heard of such a thing)

- They will obviously never intend any action to anybody taking advantage of their current, "illegal" "offer" (= whilst being "illegal", it's a deliberata offer in full knowledge of what people will do, in masses)

- So their next best step would indeed be to offer upgrade, and these without checking the codes of your current version (as they do now), or with communicating that any such code, incl. these general ones here, will be accepted (this will bring really satisfying numbers of both new Photoshop and new Acrobat users, and then many other users here and there for the rest of the package altogether. Take my example: I use my (very old version of) PageMaker, but if I got a current InDesign (update) for perhaps 300 euro, I'd be more than tempted, and the same would apply for many potential users of some of the programs there who cannot justify professional prices for professional sw, since, very simply, they don't make professional use of these programs. Note that for such an update, if Adobe accepted these general codes, without inquiring about more legitimate, previous, individual codes on top, many of us would get into such a "brand-new InDesign for me now" business, on such an update offer, even WITHOUT installing now "their" illegitimate copy of the program in question! I further insist on this core point of this affair (core point from my pov of course):

- If Adobe are smart (and I think / hope they are further on, their move today (= reconnection of the codes / links page, knowing they technically do it for everyone) BEING smart imo), they will offer an update to "anyone with the general codes", meaning, at some point in time (only), everybody being interested in their products will pay for Illustrator, InCopy, Photoshop, say, 250 or 300 bucks instead of 1,000 or 1,200 bucks (see below) - and then, these people (= non-professionals) are out of their dreaming-of-Adobe but within Adobe's regular-updates scheme, i.e. many of those will then update further on, here and there

- Now for the Adobe's normal prices. 40hz, your minority view here is perfectly justified: developers ought to be paid, no discussion upon that.

- In practice, though, we all convene here, but then love getting sw with coupons, - 70 p.c. off on bits, at student prices without being students anymore, in cases developers are "easy" re the documents to produce in order to get the special price, and so on: 90 p.c. of us love to pay less: this is a general rule that even applies to sw less expensive than Adobe's

- Now for Adobe in particular: For most sw, if a non-pro dreams of it, he buys it. Not so for Adobe, since Adobe's prices are tailored to professionals, and to professionals only: no clemency with dreaming amateurs, and no -40 p.c. at bits here, either (of course) - no chance for dreaming amateurs to get Adobe for a decent price, except if he's got student kids who deliver the needed documents for pops in order to get his beloved Photoshop, and really cheap then

- Furthermore, Adobe's European prices are almost two times the U.S. prices, and have always been. Now you can buy in the U.S., then you will be told there's no after-sales service, since the European one is for European-version customers only, and the U.S. one is for U.S. customers only - you'd fall between the two groups here

- Since exactly this was my problem, last year, for a simple activation of legit Adobe sw, it cost me FIVE HOURS of telephoning to about 8 or 9 different people, just in order to get my product activated, and this ninth very kind man presumably did something "illegal" in the eyes of Adobe, by finally activating my paid product; before, I had the "pleasure" to speak with people all over the world, and I particularly remember a woman from Russia or from Ukraine: I'm shuddering even now, when just remembering this conversation

- This all meaning, Adobe isn't any sw house as any other: Adobe is very special, hence some passionate reactions here and elsewhere, or to put it in other words: Adobe's so arrogant (this not being an accusation but a simple fact) that they simply won't let gone away with such a big error: When elsewhere people say, "well, was wishful thinking, will not be, I move on", with Adobe (or with MS, for that, but less so lately, since from villain, they more and more get the victim bonus, bec/of Apple having overtaken the "big winner" (and for some of us, the villain) role), there's big passion having been let out of the box, and it's not with a shrug that people are willing to close that box.

- You, 40hz, have been looking at this subject very cool, and you were alone to do so, from a professional's pov, but then, professionals are paid, they get their sw from their employer, or in the case of freelancers, they pay for their sw, but at the same time justify their prices vàv their customers with their expensive equipment incl. expensive sw (and they tend to exaggerate here a little bit, rather often) - even MS is there for the professional, AND for the amateur, with different ranges of products, but where the amateur products ain't totally crippled (as is the case with Adobe's "cheap" "Element" versions)

- So, as with SAP and other real "professional" sw no amateur will ever touch, Adobe is for professionals only, by their prices (and for a happy few who can, by their income, justify such prof. prices for their amateur use); the hick here being, Adobe's the only such sw house that in fact produces sw FOR amateurs, but not selling it with prices in concordance with this fact. I mean, what amateur's interested in traduction sw, in crm sw, in legal case M sw, and so on, let alone SAP product?

- But with Adobe's "professional" product, lotsa amateurs crave to have those! In this prof. league, then, Adobe is unique, by constantly making masses of amateurs' mouths water.

- All this has to be considered in such a PR desaster - Just saying, "if you want a prof. product, pay prof. prices, or clear off" wouldn't have been the smart Adobe reaction here, after the initial big-mistake they made: What they've got on offer is simply too attractive for millions of non-professionals. And it seems - they're very smart people - they are following the right strategy here, today, codes and links are available again, to everybody; any other move would have left them with some loyal professionals and fuming masses. It's up to them now to offer un upgrading scheme that will bring them lots of money when they don't ask for too harsh a price, for every product - bear in mind CS2 isn't that easy with modern computers / operating systems, so many people will be happy to upgrade, at a half-way decent price.

- Even at this very moment, the download speed is irreproachable, and considering the traffic they must get, I can't say but that I'm deeply impressed.

- But what about that little a... that did this to them, or was it just one big error on their part? Only one thing is for certain: Their codes / links page being down yesterday was on purpose; proof: download speed yesterday and today: they decidedly do NOT have technical problems over there. So it's now probable that they panicked yesterday, then thought about: With the best possible results for everybody, it seems to me. Hats off to them, they're real professionals even in the face of disaster.

- 40hz, you said, somebody else just do something equivalent. Well, that's planning without their extraordinary expertise. So they've got their quasi-monopoly in graphics, let alone pdf (any little office manage will say, well, there are competitors, but they are not 100 p.c. compatible, so in order to comply with authorities, etc. we must buy the original, whatever its price!), and hence their prices - but for amateurs, here and there, a big-mistake on their part, a little breach into this out-of-reach pricing scheme, is very welcome. And finally, let's not forget we're speaking of 8-years-old sw that no professional would touch anymore. (As for the monopoly aspect: sw competing with Acrobat Prof. costs 100-200 euro, whilst Acrobat Prof is available for over 500 euro, meaning, Adobe has recouped their pdf investments long ago, it's almost all net profits - and dont' forget, their pdf is a standard now, so some price correction re Acrobat would have been needed long ago. I don't blame them; I just say, some correction is very welcome.)

- The optimists have been proven right: They didn't cut off their servers to begin with, and now, obviously, they're preparing for the largest possible updating customer base. Is this to be blamed? Even themselves seem to move in our direction; do they need defendors of their most prominent (past in part, hopefully) arrogance?

Curt, I have to make an avowal: Immediately after posting my post, I remembered that there is "search pictures by a picture" in google (without having it ever used or even searched for this function, hence my not remembering the function in time), but I was too tired to go back and rectify - which now presents the big advantage of your having layed out this fine google function to a broader audience (well, it's the first-time readers here I'm speaking off: I'm sure regular readers here will have known before). In fact, this feature is extremely dangerous for anybody who tries to adopt, for commercial purposes, graphics / photos that ain't his own, and even clipping / resizing / etc. won't prevent google from finding the original, I've read somewhere. Google is as brilliant as it's invasive! ;-)

Remember Laura Nyro.

General Software Discussion / Re: A new harddisk for my old notebook?
« on: January 08, 2013, 06:37 AM »
Remember Laura Nyro.

Curt, didn't know "Homer van Gogh" or "Vincent Simpson", but see now it's a pastiche between some of Edvard Munch, as I thought it was, and Vincent van Gogh indeed - learned something new, thank you! (You can't google for pictures if you don't have some search term, now you gave me the search terms needed for finding!)

40hz, this is interesting input, and I agree they have a very clever business model here that you adequately described.

The part where I don't follow is about this frenzy which has started some 48 hours ago, meaning Adobe should have reacted in some way to close the dam. I mean, even if the start of this affair was purely normal business of Adobe's, just without them not taking into account our "general joe" reaction (generated by generalized, worldwide wishful thinking), they now LIVE with this totally new situation, but without an adequate reaction to this. In fact, what'd be needed on their part, is - in this scenario -, reopening of the "middle page", but with a message, "in view of what's going on, we closed this down and will soon propose a better solution for our existing customers", and especially, the closing down of the download facilities. But these are open, as Edvard rightly reminds us to, whilst the "enter your ID" page is down - so this doesn't make sense. 48 hours within such a hurricane, and no biz-like reaction from Adobe (ok, it's not 48 hours after the week-end yet, they might take their time!) when they KNOW that a 5-, perhaps a 6-digit figure of people out there WAIT for something positive - well, if you're right, and you might be right, it'll be time to discuss outrageous arrogance on the side of Adobe: at this moment, they don't do anything in order to contain this hurricane, and if they really presume they can LIVE with 100,000 or more deceived would-be users, well...

Please remember there are the professional graphists who are in their subscription scheme, but how many are they? 100,000, worldwide? A little bit more? On the other hand, I know several people who own Photoshop (the expensive, "full" edition, not something light, don't know which version, didn't follow this subject so eagerly before today), just for tweaking their holiday photos, and all those people, the "amateurs" with expensive cameras and Photoshop at home, might be affected as many of us here are: All these people will judge Adobe from a moral pov ("can be trusted / cannot be trusted in the end"): they ain't as "objective" as the real professionals here.

And what's their number? And then, what's the number of all those people out there who're dreaming of Photoshop, but can't justify the expense? One thing is for certain: That number goes into the millions. And here, in this potential market, the potential damage goes into the hundreds of millions: It's one thing to hear of such a lost opportunity, too late for yourself, but knowing people who knew about it got something out of it (with, or without then updating and bringing revenue) - but hearing, for somebody "wanting" Photoshop but not daring buying it, from his income, and with two children, that there had been such a revolt, and then, nothing - Adobe, "you all were just wrong. you all misunderstood. you all are dumb." - such a story will estrange such potential, future Photoshop buyers even much more from their wanted object.

I'm speaking here of some "extra" money even fathers of two get, here or there, and with the wife saying, for once buy something YOU will be happy with - then, our father of two will sense, well, Photoshop, that's for professionals only, it's far away from my horizon of reality, and he will buy another update of AC DC or such, spending the rest on the family (well, that would be preferable in the end, right?).

My point is, if you're right, 40hz, and that's possible, Adobe is driving high-speed into a global image desaster, and 36 hours after the week-end, they haven't done anything yet in order to even contain that image desaster-in-the-make.

But then, there are antecedents: Their burial of FreeHand (bought together with Flash, from Macromedia), for lesser Illustrator (of their own) showed their arrogance to some (angry on them even today, 10 years later) - but you're saying they're ready to redo the same unnecessary creation of an Adobe haters army, now, with that number multiplied by 1,000 or more?

I tend to believe you, though, all the more so since that was my first impression after the news of that journal update there - while seeing much more optimism around myself, and wishing to be pleasantly surprised.

Yeah, chances are high you're perfectly right - I said it myself: Whatever the outcome, they will find ways to contain their give-away lot.

Which will be a mistake. SC2 doesn't work on "modern" machines, or not smoothly at least, not many amateurs would subscribe a subscription... but then, many people would take this offer, play around with it, then update, for 250 bucks, to the latest non-subscriptive version of Photoshop, instead of turning their back to Adobe in order to minimize their regrets: "didn't want it so much anyway".

I'm wondering if their marketing guys do sleep these nights, or are awaken for 36 hours or more now, on coffee and more. There's subject to think about, on their side, and fast!

Edvard, this point goes to you, and that's reason for mild optimism re the outcome for us. By leaving the download servers online, they'd produce more and more future enemies if in the end they didn't legalize it all and for all.

tomos, the Irish alternative was on my agenda if ever the Australian English didn't work, but it was fun to tweak all the number, date and hour settings back to Continental European standards, even in the Australian version. By the way, with the above settings, Win= German, then user AND language = English, even Google search isn't stable in English, but reverts to Dutch (!) once a day - (wrong) geolocalization over everything.

For 7, OEM or you, you need the more expensive versions ("prof" or something) in order to change languages, and 8 is finally "open" to your respective choice, then. But as said, geolocalization is the core term here, so any language setting isn't that helpful in the end, advertizing (and more such intrusive things) follow us.

Funny (but predictable): Most posts in the web re language settings, etc., aint about "how to change the settings" but "how to detect the settings; I want to present my web site, accordingly" - hence my having to live with Dutch ads making me laugh here and there (I read some Dutch, and it's kind of "wrong German", so often it's really funny).

On the other hand, it's the Dutch, and the Scandinavian, who in non-natively-speaking English Europa speak really almost perfect English, and was it to be decided by me, I'd wish French and German kids had also the chance to learn really good English early on, as Dutch and Scandinavian kids do: English as a lingua franca (= the ex-Esperanto, buried forever, and that's a good thing, but the idea behind was brilliant) is exactly what we all need, all of us - but reality is, three thirds of adult Germans or French ain't able to express themselves in English, and that's a real problem. Rant off. ;-)

EDIT: fenixproductions, 100 p.c. on your side, was a little bit mixing up the culprits and the messenger. Sorry!

wraith888, I'm sure the op was as excited about this chimeric "find" as most of us were.

The above-mentioned Adobe discussion


is highly instructive in part, search for "Matthileo" (several posts) for marketing considerations, similar to what I said above when I thought it was legitimate but tried to find their purpose / motivation behind it,

"(And if they offer you an update for less than 600 bucks - remember, under normal circumstances, CS2 would not even be upgradeable anymore (since more than 2 versions "old") - take it: It's state-of-the-art sw, even my ages-old versions are top-notch. (Without such an exceptional planned update offering, why would they give CS2 away now, so expect that to come your way afterwards - begin saving up for it!))"

Also, search there for "Ozpeter" (one long post): He explains why he seriously thinks Adobe might have given out valid licenses in the end, and I judge his argumentation serious indeed.

This brings us to the question - also in the case of possible ex-post acknowledgement of this scoop by Adobe - that many of us (even Adobe ID owners like myself) didn't understand very well the functioning of this downloading business and just downloaded the files in question from the links given here, not by accessing any page - the inaccessible one? - by their respective Adobe ID.

The technical problem here is, in the Adobe discussion they speak about activation codes for every program, while we were given, here, just ONE such activation code (activation code meaning here, a code you put into the program in order to "activate" it locally, the point being that they shut down their activation servers, hence their need for giving out activation codes functioning without the program phoning home): So, is it ONE code for the whole package, as I had thought by just reading posts here, or is it a whole bunch of activation codes, 10 different such codes for 10 different programs in the package, from which most of us will then only have got one?

In order for not being censored, let me make clear that I ask this question under the provision that the download itself, together with its intended purpose, the use of the program(s), might be considered perfectly legal, and in this case only, e.g. because Adobe will say so, after all:

Then, we'd need those missing codes if there are any, right? Since the page on which those codes are presumed to be available if there you enter your Adobe ID, is not accessible anymore, and highly probably never will become accessible again, we'd probably be in the situation we didn't think of: Our files are perhaps legal, but unusable by lack of the necessary codes! (When before, we thought we had all in our need, except for the legal foundation to use it.)

So, anybody having installed the whole package, with that only code given here? No other codes needed?

And then, if really they have shut down their activation servers: I've got (expensive AND NEEDED) software from them that phones home on activation, older than CS2 - without these activation servers, will I get the needed activation by phone, from them, in case I change my pc, or just my hdd? If such was needed, this is the first big occasion upon which that "activation by phoning only" scheme will perhaps be proven to be too unfavorable to users, even with a big company (except for MS where there's always the fall-back by phoning to physical people in extremis) - not speaking of sole developers going out of business, but speaking of a heavyweight like Adobe where your bought, legitimate license perhaps will not be transferred anymore to your new computer (with an old, compatible operating system): legally, that's dispossession, and I think there will be some problems for Adobe, by (and if) them shutting down activation servers and not procuring any "human fall back".

And finally, as for their motivation, either it's a set-up in order to create update revenu, as mused upon above ("We'll make you an offer you can't refuse"), or it's blatant stupidity as one man in the Adobe forum said... or, perhaps, it's been a scheme set up by somebody there that will not be thrown out now, but who had already been given notice, and who then had inadvertently be given the occasion to be remembered forever, in this company. It seems that so many people got aware of this that Adobe has to react in some way that will not put off anybody but the hardest-core graphists using their very latest versions anyway - but this will not mean they will give away those missing codes if there are any. At best, they will say, ok it's legal if you've got all what you need - but they will certainly not help anybody to gather anything else, be it codes, or be it further files not downloaded yet.

And, to tell you the truth, it's highly probable that "Ozpeter"'s right, but only for those happy few that can prove they downloaded the files (and code(s)) BY USING their Adobe ID's - so for most of us, it'll probably be illegal use if any, since we got the files, but not by going by an unaccessible intermediate stopping page.

And such a setup, where there's only a fraction of legitimate users in the end, updating or not, strongly indicates not a purposeful scheme by Adobe, but simply sabotage from within Adobe.

In other words, if they ever had had the intention to legalize it afterwards, in order to get new, updating customers, they would have ensured that this intermediate "enter your Adobe ID, then get code(s) and download link(s)" page had stayed accessible - remember, file download was high-speed in spite of the run.

So, let's safely assume most of us are empty-handed whatever the outcome.

"This Adobe staffer does not say that you're free to install and use what you may have downloaded in good faith. It simply says Adobe has no intention of going after people just for downloading it."

Brilliant discernment, 40hz, a textbook example of logic applied (as it should be applied)!

Wraith888: Technically, you're perfectly right, and I knew this even before I made my request. But since the thread starter insisted on his thread being NOT SPAM, then all of us had us in a big way, to change NOT SPAM into SPAM would be just retaliation and more elegant at that then saying something like, all those who did this to us are big a...

So why not change the subtitle to [ATTN: SCAM, WORSE THAN ANY POSSIBLE SPAM]

Or something. ;-)

General Software Discussion / Re: A new harddisk for my old notebook?
« on: January 07, 2013, 05:55 PM »
Remember Laura Nyro.

General Software Discussion / Re: Adobe CS2 for free? (NOT SPAM)
« on: January 07, 2013, 04:42 PM »
Could one of the moderators change the subtitle of this thread from (NOT SPAM) to (SPAM), please?

Curt, many people use it as such, and vice versa, many novelists and creative writers could do very well with such a replicating function, too: e.g. for material they'd use here, but then again, believe to use over there, and which ends up not at all in the waste bin, but in a special "to be used later where it goes more smoothly than here" drawer. For all such jumbling around, such a function would be pure gold, but we agree it'd cost more than 40 bucks.

As for AS, I'm one of those AS specialists out there, using it by the non-documented(-any-more) internal search codes, and having used it from day 1 or so (Dos day, I think it was Dos version 2 or 3 - in those days, it even had a macro language implemented that was with its Win 1.0 version and never appeared again), and after helping burying it with my constant criticism of its development having gone bonkers (well, it ended up under the rules of their marketing guy, instead of some serious coding person), I now wish it to be resurrected, less your-material-eating buggy, asap. Btw, it's regularly on bits, for under 100 bucks, but prefer the non-prof version, the prof version's indexing feature (and sole feature it's got over the standard version) causing more serious problems than anything else in this once fine program.

Sorry for this surprise (I suppose), but the good news is, if anybody needs help with AS, I'm willing to assist, now that they even have lost their forum.

Don't laugh: It's the best little-enterprise crm there is ("the best" meaning the most versatile and practical, not the most beautiful) - don't import pictures, don't do real links, just do simili-links processed by your own macros external to AS, don't get over 10,000 customers / prospects, and you'll be rather happy with this program, as extraordinarily buggy as it becomes whenever you try to force its limits. Have it as simple as it gets, internally, and it will let you take big advantage of its architecture.

Today, I said, there's many good coders, but lots of very poor sw design. For AS, it's the opposite: It's genious sw, but must be programmed in a way you'd hung yourself by projective shame if ever you saw its code.

Off-topic: I've always admired your "Norwegian" symbol - earnest: your own, or copied somewhere? Not really important, it's top-class in either case.

General Software Discussion / Re: Adobe CS2 for free? (NOT SPAM)
« on: January 07, 2013, 04:05 PM »
I very much like your signet, f0dder, totally represents my present mood. But their products are fine stuff, that's why they get such prices.

General Software Discussion / Re: Adobe CS2 for free? (NOT SPAM)
« on: January 07, 2013, 03:36 PM »
(Edit 5: I just see even Acrobat 8 Pro was on "offer" - wow, what a scam. Well, perhaps I'll buy Acrobat 9 now, as a triple pdf "printer", for 120 bucks or so. Buy used sw - don't enrich the original developers! (Especially when it's Adobe.))

(Edit 4: Christmas was over, and we should have known better. Edit 6: From sites such as slickdeals, this outcome is what is regularly to be expected from them, mydealz in Germany, hundred of such sites: all they offer is crap - but Forbes has got me. Even when you're paranoid, you'll never be paranoid enough, as we've seen today.)

(Edit 3: Just see the doctor is faster than me every time today, but for Adobe - or just for the man with the three names, it's April's Fools' Day on January 7, this year? And as for the "you ain't legally entitled", forget it, since Adobe products (even from 2002/2003) invariably phone home! What CRAP! (cannot say what I think about that "X Y-Hughes over there", would be censored here. Let Forbes go bankrupt!)

(Edit 2: What about that awful Forbes post???!!! The update I mean.)

(Edit: Just see I'm not the only one who's caught the interest of this kind offer for just Acrobat alone.)

This is the scoop of the year, imo. I've got quite a pack of their sw (almost 3,000 bucks over the years, so this comes as kind of a "fidelity reward" to me (if it comes), so I have an ID with them, don't get "in" (300 fruitless tries or so), but this will hopefully change. As a student, you can get even their current package for a very decent price, but for non-students, this "old" package is what we need!  (I've got many rather old versions from them since their update prices ain't but for updating the last 2 versions; if yours are older than that, you'll pay full price, and in Europe, that's about 2 times the U.S. price anyway - I'm not blaming Adobe, I want just to explain why in Europe, they sell a lot less of their stuff than they could, with a more decent pricing scheme.

Don't overlook a "hidden" (= easily overlooked) gem here, which is Acrobat Standard 7 (and perhaps even for more than one pc)

The current version is 11 (not X anymore), and even one-comp-only (!) OEM versions of Acrobat Standard 9 cost about 80 bucks, the same for up to 3 comps 120 or more, so Acrobat 7 for free comes extremely handy - I know since I use Acrobat Elements 6 (which just offers a virtual pdf printer, but then, it's the "original", "legit" one), on just 1 comp.

There are endless discussions in the web (and here) about what third-party pdf "printers" and such deliver acceptable results, and in what circumstances, so even if you don't use your Acrobat 7 but as a genuine pdf "printer" on all your comps, it's of the highest interest. This is a real blow to third-party pdf offerings, as would indeed be even more so some more realistic price policies for Acrobat in general, in the future (which will probably never come). Even my crippled Acrobat 6 produces flawless pdf's, even for hundreds of pages, so I look forward to Standard 7 with big expectations (and I would be very pleased to replace my Nineties Adobe graphics softwares with the about 2002/2003 "CS2" ones).

And this is not speaking of all the powerhouses there, Photoshop (for many), Illustrator (for some), etc.

The scoop of the year, I say, won't be toppable. More than just great. Nobody should say, "I don't do graphics, I don't need it" - just install Acrobat 7, for a beginning, and then for the other applics, the day will come you'll be happy to have this or that, within the collection.

And now for the task of registering this little wonder!

(And if they offer you an update for less than 600 bucks - remember, under normal circumstances, CS2 would not even be upgradeable anymore (since more than 2 versions "old") - take it: It's state-of-the-art sw, even my ages-old versions are top-notch. (Without such an exceptional planned update offering, why would they give CS2 away now, so expect that to come your way afterwards - begin saving up for it!))

I can top this.

I own a full-price, NON-TRANSFERRABLE lifetime license of Xyplorer, and I don't even like this program (and almost never use it); didn't even like it when I bought it full price - whilst it's half-price two times a year at bits, and I knew this when buying, and yes, one week later it was half-price there again - now imagine all these women buying shoes in numbers, bad color, wrong size, and overpriced, one week before the sales begin, and all this without anybody holding a gun at their temple, just without any external reason!

(Ok, according to European law, sw licences ARE transferrable now, but as for personal, non-transferrable lifetime licenses, I'm in very heavy doubt here, and wouldn't take any chances!)

(And I KNEW this thread was going to spin out of control this way as soon as I read its title.)

(And no pun intended to the Lady we've got here among us; we're worse than any shoes-affinite woman out there, and we know it. OMG)

General Software Discussion / Re: A new harddisk for my old notebook?
« on: January 07, 2013, 01:09 PM »
Remember Laura Nyro.

Curt, please allow for an irrelevant criticism, then for a (useful?) hint.

Re PageFour: I couldn't resist the free offer on bits some days ago, but I didn't even install the prog, because (and I knew this when downloading it):

On first sight, it seems to be a 3-pane outliner, with PM (project management), but then, of course, this very first, additional little window there (that's missing from competing sw) is NOT some sort of a PM window, into which you could clone parts of your tree, but it's simply a de-compacting of the tree itself: Could come handy here and there, but is false promises at the end of the day, and I so much long for a real PM additional window that I couldn't bear this simili one. Rant off.

Re word count / word listing tools. First, you must distinguish between the word count and the word listing variety: These categories appear similar, voire are often mixed-up in the web, when in fact it's totally different sw:

Word counting sw (as do MS word, or translating sw, but external tools count more words!) is for translators paid by the word (hence them paying for additional tools, after so many translations, those pay over what they would have got for free in Word or their translation sw), whilst word listing tools build up lists of any word used (i.e. they count them separately), e.g. by decreasing frequency.

My hint being, such sw can be really helpful, in order to detect misspellings, for one, by way of just looking at the terms further down in such a list: Also, here, you'll find rare words / (too) rarely used synonyms of more general terms used more frequently, and some of which you then might wish to replace by some of the rarer ones, and also all these misspelled words. I admit the utility of checking for these here isn't as important when you use in-built spellchecking functions in Word or whatever, but then, there are people like me who are fed up with all those false hits such in-built spellchecking functions produce, and for these such word listing tools like this one are more than handy!

General Software Discussion / A new harddisk for my old notebook?
« on: January 07, 2013, 11:24 AM »
Remember Laura Nyro.

Remember Laura Nyro.

Remember Laura Nyro.

Remember Laura Nyro.

rjbull, Thank you for this hint. In fact, I regularly trial all these outliners several times a year, and I discarded the one you mention just several weeks ago, again, but without remembering what the dealbreaker was - I'll remember to add it here in some months, after my next trial of the thing. But since it has got a hit table, it probably doesn't have Boolean search, and it's not "Boolean search" I'm after, because that might sound impressive or sophisticated or something, it's simply the problem that I really need the hit table AND Boolean search, if I want to avoid having tenfold "hits" I then have to discard. (see below)

There's another prob with search: Of course, nowhere in all these, you'll get "semantic search", i.e. automatic inclusion of "dog" in your search when you'll search for "spaniel" or "retriever", or even better, the other way round, from general to specific (since all the specifics are more difficult to remember and to manually list up then some general terms).

So you know you'll have to do without that from the beginning. But the real prob is, you'll (hopefully) use all sorts of synonyms all over the place (we're not speaking of very "technical" or legal stuff here, but of texts people might be more or less pleased to read, so variation in expression is mandatory (many of us are limited here by English being their lingua franca, but not their native language)), and how to find something then, without Boolean search?

I want to say, even when you do the "semantic search" yourself, by listing up the possible synonyms in your search, with OR, it's necessary that your IMS (information management system) can handle these OR's! And that's an even bigger problem than the first one, i.e. to discard false hits.

It's really the combination of hit tables and Boolean search that's of utmost importance. Hence the attraction of MI, UR and the like, in spite of their lack of real development and their non-extermination of annoyances they got 10 years ago and will perhaps never weed out.

The more I see the absence of development in these "big players" in the field, the more I regret the demise of askSam - AS, as it was, but being stable and without all these hellish bugs making people lose data, would have been preferable to them all.

Even what's been left of their forum,


has been left untouched for another 4 months now, but I regularly check there, and if ever askSam will become more or less bug-free, I'll tout it with all the persuasive power I'll have left then. So much for little outliners. ;-)


Oops, I mixed up my accounts, finally, but my identical pc number for both was speaking enough. Well, I'd been really angry about my contributions being called spam and myself being thrown out, but then, I wasn't decided to sulk forever, all the less so since I had very well understood there's some smart and affable folks around here.

Remember Laura Nyro.

Remember Laura Nyro.

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