Messages - Markham [ switch to compact view ]

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6
Well, I must have misread something then, but the latest thing I've read was "well, it's about 10% anyway, so what?". Sorry if I misunderstood.

If that's how you perceived my words, then it is I who should apologise for the lack of clarity in my post. The version that was available until 2 days ago contains around 10% original GPL code and I'm in the process of rewriting that part so that there will be no GPL code whatsoever in any future versions I release.


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The last week or so have been trying for all of us and particularly so for those of us closest to the problem. Whether we agree on issues or not, I want to thank you all for your input, advice and for posting your concerns. If there have been any shortcomings on my part, then I apologise for those. If I appear to have lost my temper with some of you, then I'm sorry; I didn't mean to.

Many of you have offered good advice and I am very grateful for that.

I especially want to thank "lotusrootsearch" whose incredible generosity means Circle Dock's future in both GPL and non-GPL (advanced) versions is assured. The GPL version, with full source code, will continue to be both hosted and supported here. There is, however, a caveat: Eric Wong's source archive (and binaries) does contain proprietary (non-GPL) units (DLLs) for which source code is not (and can not) be provided.

After an almost four-hour IM session with the Sarge last night (my time), I have agreed to remove some of the bugs in Eric Wong's preview release (v0.9.2 Alpha 8.2) to make it a stable release and this, with the source code, will be available via this Forum (and Circle Dock's home page at wikidot) as soon as I have time. We do not have access to the Circle Dock Project page on SourceForge so are unable to update there. We will also re-release Eric Wong's last stable release (v0.9.1) in both binary and source forms. I hope you will understand that my main thrust will be geared to the semi-commercial (100% non-GPL code) version which will be hosted elsewhere, therefore the time available for the GPL version will be somewhat restricted: but I will do my best.

Some time over the next few days, I will post a technical note with an overview of the inner workings of the GPL'd version for the benefit of all who download and want to play around with the source code.

I hope you all find this compromise both acceptable and appealing.



Mark

7
It's about having some integrity, which Markham seems to have decided to compromise for the sake of money. The support from this community isn't good enough for him. The money donated by members that don't even use CD isn't good enough for him. He really doesn't appreciate the donations of anyone that gave him money to support the project but never used it, and as someone that has supported many projects for things I do not use, I find that kind of insulting.

You may think what you wish but do not expect me to allow you to write such contentious nonsense in this Forum without some form of strongly-worded response.

How dare you accuse me of (effectively) abandoning my integrity for the sake of money. Who the hell do you think you are to make such baseless accusations? You seem to have selective memory: I have publicly thanked all those who so generously donated to me personally, not once, not twice, but several times. Just so you're aware, your donation - if I were to receive it - would pay for one-fifth of one day's Internet connection charges - that's right, I have to pay the equivalent of $150 per month for a stable connection here. I have not made one penny from Circle Dock - rather it has cost me a considerable sum of money to date.

Since January, there have been literally hundreds of thousands of Circle Dock downloads. Strangely enough, not one of the more than three-quarters of a million downloaders have contacted either the Sarge or I regarding the source code. You say you downloaded Circle Dock in May but only this week have you made any mention of the fact. I would suggest to you that you didn't give its absence a second thought until you read of the new license provisions this week and you're now doing so to stir-up trouble and make me - and the Sarge - to be the bad guys here. It won't work.



Mark

8
I apologize to Sarge I meant no harm and thanks for the clarification Mark. I'm more than happy to offer you dedicated server space, 100Mbps link, 2 Terabytes per month traffic free with no strings attached. I'm not after your source code keep it to yourself just upload the end-user files. This should give you guys time to figure out the licensing without hurting user adoption. PM me.
-lotusrootstarch (August 12, 2010, 06:40 AM)
I am flabbergasted and truly grateful for your most generous offer. I will contact you by PM. Thank you so very much!



Mark

9
I hadn't intended to post here ever again, but I do feel obliged to comment on some of the replies.

Mouser says
i blame myself for not spotting early on when markham just started submitting improved versions of CD that to comply with eric's CircleDock GPL license, the source code for the new versions should have been posted all along the way.
First of all, I want to clear-up some misunderstandings here:
  • Eric Wong issued his last update, version 0.9.2 Alpha 8.2, at the end of September 2008. The last time he posted here, his SourceForge Project page and the Circle Dock wikidot site was around the 2nd week of October 2008 since when he has not returned to either place.
  • Over the course of the next year, the Sarge has made continuous attempts to contact him to no avail.
  • From investigations that the Sarge and I have conducted, we have learned that Eric Wong was attending a Canadian University and was suddenly recalled back to China at that time. It would appear that he was denied an Exit Permit to leave China and resume his studies in Canada; also, his internet access appears to be severely restricted: he has only accessed his YouTube page and that was within the last 6 months.
  • You should have been aware, because it was posted here, that, towards the end of last year, we had discovered that certain unscrupulous individuals had taken the source code published by Eric Wong as GPL and had simply recompiled it and were selling it as if it were their own creations. In view of this, the Sarge and I took the hard decision to restrict the availability of the source code.
  • Only one person has formally requested up to date source code, namely "DrWicked", and it was provided to him towards the end of January - and that was the source code to 1.0 which we released earlier that month.
  • In removing the files from his server, Mouser has inconvenienced not only new users but also all the current ones who've downloaded and installed since version 1,0 was released. A good number of the files removed were the "live help" system which is directly accessed by Circle Dock's help program. Comments like   "it's not such a horrible thing if the downloads are down for a week" are both untrue and weasel-words, in my opinion.
My second point is that the Sarge and I have taken every precaution to preserve Eric Wong's Intellectual Property Rights. Since taking over the project, I have had to rewrite very large parts of his original code, firstly to eliminate the huge number of bugs and inconsistencies and secondly in order to be able to add new features in a structured and orderly manner. Version 1.0 contained less than 50% of Eric Wong's original code and this has since dropped to less than 10%.

Mouser goes on to say
by the time the issue came to a head, i think markham had done so much coding and invested so much time and made so many plans that it was just out of control.
What he omits to tell you is that it is he who forced the Sarge and myself to plan for Circle Dock's future. Whilst I was in the UK during the month of June, Mouser PMed me and told me to make alternative arrangements for the future hosting of the Circle Dock downloads which at the time, were being hosted on the Members' server. He had previously offered me the space to do precisely that and, with the benefit of hindsight, I foolishly accepted not knowing that he would serve an eviction notice when Circle Dock became popular. Which it did.

It is Mouser who forced us to consider "commercialising" the program to the extent that our costs would be covered. Both the Sarge and I are retired and live largely on fixed incomes. Neither of us can afford the hosting costs and certainly not for the huge bandwidth Circle Dock has been taking - measured in Terabytes per month. Coincidentally, we were both working on integrating Circle Dock with the Dexpot "Virtual Desktop Manager" at the time and we looked at their licencing arrangements. That allows individual users to use Dexpot on their own PCs providing such PCs are not used for revenue generation but charges for commercial use of the program. The Sarge and I both agreed that this was a good model since it would generate sufficient income to pay for our development and hosting costs whilst at the same time continuing to supply the product free of charge to individual users.

I posted a message to warn everyone that the licencing model would be changing with the release of Version 2 and gave an outline of the new provisions. One user, whose native language is not English, misinterpreted the post and wrote in those terms - this sparked a rash of posts, mostly from non-users but which were, in the main, supportive of the changes, once the background and rationale had been explained. However, it seems that Mouser read the thread and took it upon himself to immediately cease Circle Dock's availability and in so doing, caused the removal of every other file I had stored on the DCMember's server.

Some believe that my decision to remove myself was made in haste:
One lesson I've (hopefully) learned: when in an upset state, don't make big decisions, and don't post stuff publicly. Take a few big steps bag and breathe deeply.
It wasn't. I thought long and hard all Wednesday before coming to what I believe is the only decision I could take, given the circumstances.

Whilst I do agree with "lotusrootstarch"'s first two paragraphs, I take issue with him regarding the Sarge's involvement and spokesmanship. The Sarge is a member of "Team Circle Dock" and as well as being the designer of numerous graphic images is the marketing and public voice of the team.

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As for the future, Team Circle Dock will take the program forward, as a fully non-GPL semi-commercial product, and likely to be under Microsoft's BizNet umbrella. This Forum will continue to support Eric's GPL'd version and I have already modified the download links to point to the SourceForge project where his last released version resides. The Sarge is already hard at work rolling-back the Circle Dock wikidot page to as it was when Eric Wong had sole ownership. All threads and discussions relating to versions issued by me are likely to be removed since they will not apply to the issued version and would be confusing for any user of the program.

To anyone who is considering continuing Eric Wong's legacy as a GPL'd program, I wish you the best of luck. There are many issues you'll need to resolve to get the program in a stable state to run under Windows Vista and Windows 7 - not least of these will be the mouse handler which caused me many sleepless nights. Most important, you will have to consider if it is truly worth the effort since there are no tangible rewards; the code is almost devoid of comments and very buggy. The code you'd be working with is, after all, an "alpha" release and not really intended for distribution in its current state. If you accept the challenge, good luck to you.




Mark

10
Circle Dock / Re: Change of Licensing from Version 2 (Cancelled)
« on: August 11, 2010, 11:20 AM »
The sad thing about this whole mess is that CD took a lot of time and effort to get it from the original source version- so much so that not much was left of it.  But from the closing of the threads, I don't take that as a good sign that it will continue...  :(

See here.

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