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241
It's definitely non-trivial.  :-\

Hi, Urlwolf, welcome to the thread. Your comment about text notes bing all you need is the perfect illustration of how hard this problem is. What works for you would never work for me. I use OneNote and find its layout and drawing capabilities restrictive because it doesn't have full set of drawing tools the way Word does.

I think the idea of rolling a file-management system into the app is the bank safe that breaks the camel's back. Sure it's doable - but I think realistically the cost is too high. Better to stay focused on the core principles. My personal version of these would be:

  • Speed - The app must be highly usable for both mouse-centtric and keyboard-centric users. Extra keystrokes and mouse clicks must be all but eliminated. Common functions must be riduculously easy to access.
  • Flexibility - The app must be highly configurable, to the point where it can actually have different UIs for different users. This is the only way you are going to come up with something that will satisfy everyone form the "text only" users to the "lots of pictures and layout" users. Ideally, the app should make it possible to visualize information in ways that are not possible with existing tools or even UI metaphors. The idea of templates or canned designs must be part of this, though, so you don't have to assmble the app prior to using it. The UI should allow tweaking and refinement over time.
  • Interoperability - Nobody uses ONLY a note taking program, and the program shouldn't act as though it's alone in the world. Other apps should be able to access its metadata. It should play well with the OS. It should not require a proprietary API to get working with other tools.
  • Portability / shareability / synchronizability - If I use the app at home and at work, there should be some smart way to move my info around without creating headaches. If I want everyone in my office to run the app, users should be able to share data without a lot of headaches.

I think the last item, while desirable, is a pretty tough nut. We might want to wait a LONG while before adding it in (Version 4?) but the architecture of the app should be in place to support it from the beginning.

BTW - I'm all in favor of using old-fashoned concepts wherever possible. F'rinstance, I'd like to see a substantial set of command line parameters for the app, almost to the point of it being like its own API. This would solve a lot of problems. If you could pass the app a unique ID on the CL and have that note come up, you could easily make desktop shortcuts to individual notes, gaining a lot of file system functionality for very little cost. If the app could return detailed information based on CL queries (or via a scripting library) it would be that much easier to make it interoperable with existing tools.

242
Developer's Corner / Re: MOANTS Database Design
« on: May 17, 2006, 12:18 PM »
Sorry, I'd say I'm 100% right in this case, too. :D (Just kidding. Maybe only 93% right.)

You don't pour the foundation (or even set the concrete molds) before you've designed the structure. You're assuming a lot of things as given that I think are far from given.

A post in the other thread suggested using the file system as a data repository. The database needed in that scenario is worlds away from the one needed in the "store all notes in the database" scenario. I don't know that this could work, but if nothing else it shows that some of your "non-negotiables" may actually be "negotiables" at this early stage.

I still think DB req's are premature at this point, and specifying them too early runs the risk of imposing needless limits on the structure of the program. Or at least of spending time doing work that runs a high risk of being completely discarded. But it's your time, I guess. Personally, I don't think I'll be posting to this thread again - at least for a while.

243
I'd seen this site referenced on a GEOS-related e-mail ist I belong to.

Neat that some of these older GUIs are now being open-sourced (GEM.) I still remember being excited when BeOS was announced.  :-[

244
Welcome, Spivey!

I too toyed with the idea of using the file system as the back end for the ultimate Note Taking software. It does have some excellent benefits, and addresses the interoperability issue neatly. I left it out of my previous posts because they were so durn long already, and because, in the applications where I have seen this kind of scheme implemented, it sucked really bad.

I have to believe that it is due to limitations of the operating system, not lack of smart programmers trying to make it work. Generally, they linked files in the file system with some kind of database (to overcome the limited information available from the file system, as Rover mentioned.) This presents problems with synchronization that are probably not trivial. I won't go into a lot of technical details, but there are issues how the app can track things like files being moved around, brought into or out of the system from outside (i.e. through Windows Explorer), files being changed while the program isn't running, etc. Not to say it isn't doable, but it's probably not as easy as it looks at first glance.

Apps such as you describe do exist. Eclipse is one. It's free and you may want to check it out. Here's a link to the article that first got me interested in it:
http://www.grainge.org/pages/authoring/eclipse/eclipse.htm

Eclipse is not ready for prime time, though. It's a developer's tool and a bit to wonky (IMHO) for general use.


245
Developer's Corner / Re: MOANTS Database Design
« on: May 15, 2006, 05:22 PM »
Hi Rover -

I think I'm with Mr. Franks on this one. You've defined database requirements - but we're not talking about building a database engine. We're talking about building note taking software. Program functionality comes first, starting with interaction design. Technical stuff follows on as appropriate. Why would you start working on plumbing before the blueprints are even drawn? (Note: "Because I'm a plumber!" is NOT really a good answer!  ;) )


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